Thread: Towing braked trailers

Slow and steady wins the race when towing. Be careful, especially on the downhills. Choose a low gear, let the engine braking do the work and don't use the brake pedal unless you have to. Controlling mass and momentum thru speed control is the key.

Being proxemically aware of your position on the road. Remember the trailer will cut in on the corners. Leave an escape route if it goes bad.

@BruntyHunt
gimme a pm and i will explain further

Originally Posted by BruntyHunt

Hey, I dont know much about towing so any help much appreciated! Could be a complete newb question haha.

Im looking at purchasing a campervan that has electric brakes. It will be towed with a 2022 hilux SR5 4wd. Do I need to buy and install a brake controller unit or does the ute already have one installed?

Cheers

Also its pay to check,
whether both caravan and ute have same a towball size (50mm or 1-7/8) and if caravan coupler needs high rise towball.

You need a brake controller, get an inertia one. Electric brakes are pretty much standard on modern caravans.

The cheap dial ones that live on the drawbar are crap, and borderline dangerous. I had one of these and to have it setup for driving at 50km/h+ meant that it would lock up every time I touched the brakes doing under 20km/h. Some Jaycos come with these.

I installed a Tenkosha P3 which is awesome but would probably put in an elecbrakes drawbar setup if doing again, just for simplicity and not having to modify the tow vehicle. It is so much less stress with a decent brake controller.

Originally Posted by Savage1

You need a brake controller, get an inertia one. Electric brakes are pretty much standard on modern caravans.

The cheap dial ones that live on the drawbar are crap, and borderline dangerous. I had one of these and to have it setup for driving at 50km/h+ meant that it would lock up every time I touched the brakes doing under 20km/h. Some Jaycos come with these.

I installed a Tenkosha P3 which is awesome but would probably put in an elecbrakes drawbar setup if doing again, just for simplicity and not having to modify the tow vehicle. It is so much less stress with a decent brake controller.

fully agree.
heres the link.

https://www.elecbrakes.com/

Part of the reason for this is that the 2500Kg master cylinder is only rated to operate one braked axle or one set of disc's. A 3500Kg trailer is required to have both axles braked and the override coupling can't push that much fluid to operate all four calipers without making the WoF man think that the brakes are spongy and need bleeding... Ask me how I know this haha (oldmate thought it would be a 2 is good, 4 must be better in terms of numbers of calipers on his braked tandem boat trailer). It did stop well, I'll give it that but we could not get it past WoF once the little Indian inspector killed it for spongy brakes. The brakes passed in every other respect, good stopping power etc etc it just was too much fluid required to push out all four pistons compared to the available volume in the master cylinder. We actually looked at custom fitting a double master cylinder setup onto the coupling, but that wasn't allowed and also custom building a larger master cylinder but again not a goer. Ended up either needing to drop back to two calipers or only one braked axle or what we did in the end and fitting a US made electric/hydraulic actuator with wireless controller.

Originally Posted by No.3

Part of the reason for this is that the 2500Kg master cylinder is only rated to operate one braked axle or one set of disc's. A 3500Kg trailer is required to have both axles braked and the override coupling can't push that much fluid to operate all four calipers without making the WoF man think that the brakes are spongy and need bleeding... Ask me how I know this haha (oldmate thought it would be a 2 is good, 4 must be better in terms of numbers of calipers on his braked tandem boat trailer). It did stop well, I'll give it that but we could not get it past WoF once the little Indian inspector killed it for spongy brakes. The brakes passed in every other respect, good stopping power etc etc it just was too much fluid required to push out all four pistons compared to the available volume in the master cylinder. We actually looked at custom fitting a double master cylinder setup onto the coupling, but that wasn't allowed and also custom building a larger master cylinder but again not a goer. Ended up either needing to drop back to two calipers or only one braked axle or what we did in the end and fitting a US made electric/hydraulic actuator with wireless controller.

Standard override has a 3/4" master cylinder, you need to fit a 7/8" mc to drive 4 calipers effectively. Though its bloody hard to bleed every last bit air to get rid of a bit of sponge. Still only rated to 2500kg on override, with 4 wheel braking.

Originally Posted by Mathias

Standard override has a 3/4" master cylinder, you need to fit a 7/8" mc to drive 4 calipers effectively. Though its bloody hard to bleed every last bit air to get rid of a bit of sponge. Still only rated to 2500kg on override, with 4 wheel braking.

This. Ive done plenty of trailers with dual braked axles. You must have the bigger master cylinder.

Originally Posted by Mathias

Standard override has a 3/4" master cylinder, you need to fit a 7/8" mc to drive 4 calipers effectively. Though its bloody hard to bleed every last bit air to get rid of a bit of sponge. Still only rated to 2500kg on override, with 4 wheel braking.

Yes, but the fly in the ointment is that overriding all the above is that you have to be able to stop in 7m at 30km/hr.

Originally Posted by Mathias

Standard override has a 3/4" master cylinder, you need to fit a 7/8" mc to drive 4 calipers effectively. Though its bloody hard to bleed every last bit air to get rid of a bit of sponge. Still only rated to 2500kg on override, with 4 wheel braking.

No, was running 7/8 and still not good enough. I know what the recommendations are - don't know why it didn't work in this instance. Properly vacuum bled and fully backfilled system with the front of the trailer lifted into the sky and any air traps were straightened to release all air from the system - but it just couldn't move enough fluid without the piston in the master cylinder having to move to the amount that gave the inspectors the spongy feel. There was nothing 'wrong' with the system, no leaks, no air, no mechanical problem and it passed the test just fine in terms of braking effectiveness - it just literally didn't move enough fluid ina short enough distance to make the inspector happy with the operation of the master cylinder. Needed to go to a full 1" we reckoned to get it to the point of success which is a foreign product - but in the end of it to strengthen the trailer to the point of not killing duratorque axles every other year and fix a few other issues it basically went past the 2500Kg rating limit of the override coupling, so with all of those other issues in the mix it was a case of "lets use the ton" and fix everything including a electric/hydraulic actuator. Went from spongy to locked up in f-all and a WoF inspector that tried to fail it because he'd never seen one before and couldn't drive it (facepalm). Was good after that though.

This discussion got me thinking,

Why do caravans (often weighing less than 3 tons) need an electric brake while other 3.5T plant trailers don't have one?
My 3.5T Brian James trailer doesn't have any electric brakes and no safety chain (I can understand this part).
The trailer comes with 7-pin plug, a carabiner clip for the mechanical over-ride brake and that's it.

Am I missing something here or does a 3.5T plant trailer need an electric brake too?

Originally Posted by Snap 4T

This discussion got me thinking,

Why do caravans (often weighing less than 3 tons) need an electric brake while other 3.5T plant trailers don't have one?
My 3.5T Brian James trailer doesn't have any electric brakes and no safety chain (I can understand this part).
The trailer comes with 7-pin plug, a carabiner clip for the mechanical over-ride brake and that's it.

Am I missing something here or does a 3.5T plant trailer need an electric brake too?

Nup, your BJ trailer has brakes that I was referring to in an earlier post and its a whole different set up to electric. Its rated to 3.5T on mechanical 4 wheel braked drums, ECU approved.
Electric drum brakes are electromagnetic, which use varying voltage (0-12v) to apply the brake force via a magnet that tries to attach itself to a rotating drum face and cam on the brake shoes.

Originally Posted by Mathias

Nup, your BJ trailer has brakes that I was referring to in an earlier post and its a whole different set up to electric. Its rated to 3.5T on mechanical 4 wheel braked drums, ECU approved.
Electric drum brakes are electromagnetic, which use varying voltage (0-12v) to apply the brake force via a magnet that tries to attach itself to a rotating drum face and cam on the brake shoes.

Having done a lot of heavy towing with Brian James trailers I can say this is the standard all trailers should aspire to in the brake department.
Same with ifor horsefloats.

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Originally Posted by BRADS

Having done a lot of heavy towing with Brian James trailers I can say this is the standard all trailers should aspire to in the brake department.
Same with ifor horsefloats.

Sent from my SM-S916B using Tapatalk

Yeah, they use the German Alko mechanical drum. I implemented the sale of these as braking kits into the NZ market with my previous job. I tested all forms of braking on a 3.5T platform trailer that was our testbed and these performed extremely well. Agree with your comment.

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Originally Posted by Mathias

Nup, your BJ trailer has brakes that I was referring to in an earlier post and its a whole different set up to electric. Its rated to 3.5T on mechanical 4 wheel braked drums, ECU approved.
Electric drum brakes are electromagnetic, which use varying voltage (0-12v) to apply the brake force via a magnet that tries to attach itself to a rotating drum face and cam on the brake shoes.

Wouldn't use the electromagnetic drums again personally - pain in the arse to clean out and get working again if you have to go anywhere near iron-rich sand with them. Just awful to be fair... Apparently they are meant to be sealed. Or something.