Thread: advice on Handheld GPS

Originally Posted by Pengy

Good to know it already has DOC boundaries, as that saves a bit of guess work

I've been looking at maps a lot today - mostly WAMS and DOC stuff. Came across the GIS data that DOC uses to produce the pretty (useless IMO) hunting permit maps like this one.

Download these two files,

DOC Public Conservation Areas
DOC Recreational Hunting Permit Areas

Open them up in Google Earth and you will find that they are NOT the same. There are bits of DOC Public Conservation Areas that your DOC Hunting Permit does NOT entitle you to hunt in. The "DOC Boundaries" GPS maps are built from the first file, so unless you check the overlap with the second file (hunting areas) in Google Earth, you may be hunting where you're not meant to - and none of us want to be that guy, right?

The "Hunting Areas" GIS data also has the following description/disclaimer:

Department of Conservation - Recreation Hunting Permit Areas. This dataset is the Department of Conservation's record of those parts of Public Conservation Land where recreational hunting may take place. If hunting within these areas you MUST obtain a hunting permit first; either online at http://www.doc.govt.nz/parks-and-recreation/hunting/ or from your local DOC office. These data are based upon land parcels (cadastre) but are not suitable for accurate boundary definition.

That's DOC's legal advisors doing their arse-covering, but if that data is "not suitable" for making sure you're where you're meant to be and not where you're NOT meant to be, then I don't know what is.

I will endeavour to make a Garmin GPS map from the "DOC Recreational Hunting Permit Areas" and some data from WAMS. That way we can be more sure of what areas are:
a) Publicly accessible (via WAMS); and
b) Able to be legally hunted on (via DOC Hunting Areas).

Thoughts?

I will bring my GPS along for you to have a looksy Gibo.
Dunny is 180 meters 178 degs grid from the shed rushy. You will be just fine.

Originally Posted by Rushy

He will probably bring it on the road trip so we don't get lost between the shearing shed and the shitter.

More chance of getting lost between te puke and napier, plenty of spots along that road

Originally Posted by stretch

I've been looking at maps a lot today - mostly WAMS and DOC stuff. Came across the GIS data that DOC uses to produce the pretty (useless IMO) hunting permit maps like this one.

Download these two files,

DOC Public Conservation Areas
DOC Recreational Hunting Permit Areas

Open them up in Google Earth and you will find that they are NOT the same. There are bits of DOC Public Conservation Areas that your DOC Hunting Permit does NOT entitle you to hunt in. The "DOC Boundaries" GPS maps are built from the first file, so unless you check the overlap with the second file (hunting areas) in Google Earth, you may be hunting where you're not meant to - and none of us want to be that guy, right?

The "Hunting Areas" GIS data also has the following description/disclaimer:

Department of Conservation - Recreation Hunting Permit Areas. This dataset is the Department of Conservation's record of those parts of Public Conservation Land where recreational hunting may take place. If hunting within these areas you MUST obtain a hunting permit first; either online at Hunting or from your local DOC office. These data are based upon land parcels (cadastre) but are not suitable for accurate boundary definition.

That's DOC's legal advisors doing their arse-covering, but if that data is "not suitable" for making sure you're where you're meant to be and not where you're NOT meant to be, then I don't know what is.

I will endeavour to make a Garmin GPS map from the "DOC Recreational Hunting Permit Areas" and some data from WAMS. That way we can be more sure of what areas are:
a) Publicly accessible (via WAMS); and
b) Able to be legally hunted on (via DOC Hunting Areas).

Thoughts?

Agreed. I have noticed that the hunting areas are different around the internet. I just follow the DOC site then I know I can't go wrong. I downloaded a zip file from docs site yesterday with the boundaries. Just need to pick either 62s or Rhino. Probably will end up with the 62s I think looking at the feedback in the thread

Originally Posted by Mauser308

I've got a couple of the RINO's, haven't found battery life to be that bad especially if you turn all the battery saver options on. Better than carting a decent UHF, GPS, PLB and cellphone around with you.

The crap baby UHF radios aren't worth crap in the bush, no range so far have been impressed with the Garmin units. Much better range for the paging system than voice comms though...

I like the features it has but I wonder whether I will need them. If I have a mate who goes out and gets one also then it could be worth the money.

Originally Posted by Mauser308

I've got a couple of the RINO's, haven't found battery life to be that bad especially if you turn all the battery saver options on. Better than carting a decent UHF, GPS, PLB and cellphone around with you.

The crap baby UHF radios aren't worth crap in the bush, no range so far have been impressed with the Garmin units. Much better range for the paging system than voice comms though...

Rinos don't have a PLB in them too now do they?

Originally Posted by Pengy

Rinos don't have a PLB in them too now do they?

They sure don't.

Originally Posted by stretch

They sure don't.

That's what I thought.

I have used my smart phone loaded with GPS software and it was OK except the battery life is compromised when the GPS is active.
I now use a Rino and its battery life is OK if you stay off the radio and don't ping you mate too often.

Originally Posted by stretch

The "Hunting Areas" GIS data also has the following description/disclaimer:

Department of Conservation - Recreation Hunting Permit Areas. This dataset is the Department of Conservation's record of those parts of Public Conservation Land where recreational hunting may take place. If hunting within these areas you MUST obtain a hunting permit first; either online at Hunting or from your local DOC office. These data are based upon land parcels (cadastre) but are not suitable for accurate boundary definition.

That's DOC's legal advisors doing their arse-covering, but if that data is "not suitable" for making sure you're where you're meant to be and not where you're NOT meant to be, then I don't know what is.

I will endeavour to make a Garmin GPS map from the "DOC Recreational Hunting Permit Areas" and some data from WAMS. That way we can be more sure of what areas are:
a) Publicly accessible (via WAMS); and
b) Able to be legally hunted on (via DOC Hunting Areas).

Thoughts?

The bit about accurate boundary definition is a standard disclaimer, similar to what councils have on their GIS systems. Just simple facts of the system - there can be distortion in aerial photos, the cadastral database the boundaries are lifted from can have errors especially in remote areas, and then there is the issue of aligning the photo with the database as well. They're not saying the data is totally wrong, just that is has limitations.

It all comes down to the word 'accurate' really. In urban areas the relationship between the boundaries and the photo/map is usually within a metre or two, but in more remote areas you can sometimes find 20-30m variation. You can't define your property boundary from that data, you need a surveyor (like me) for that. Its good enough to give you a reasonable idea though, so just use common sense. Don't forget the accuracy of a good handheld GPS is usually around 5-10m in good conditions and can be a lot worse if you're in a steep gully or under thick tree cover, so thats a factor too.

So if you're standing by a fence and it says you're 20m away from the boundary, you probably shouldn't hunt on the other side of the fence...

99.9 % of boundaries that you see on those sites are sourced from Land on Line or through Terralink which is the LINZ based system.
Having drawn/compiled both topo and casdastral maps it the NZXMS 260,s and 261s, for some 10 years I can say with some certainty that aerial photography has nothing to do with cadastral boundaries.
Cadastral boundaries 20-30 metres out of position? Very much doubt it

GIS systems like WAMS and council systems etc overlay the cadastral database (along with other information) on top of aerial photos to try and show people where they are on the ground, with varying levels of accuracy.

In many areas with no recent surveys the database has just been digitised from the old cadastral record sheets, even in some small towns its not uncommon for us to get LINZ to update and readjust it by several metres to fit with survey data before lodging plans, as the fit is bad enough to skew things out of proportion as it tries to adjust.

20m+ out of position is uncommon, but I have seen it that bad in some rural areas.

Presume this is like when you zoom in on a gorgey creek on googel earth and the photo does not line up with the contour and the creek runs up the side of the gorge in spots?

If the bounderys are within 500m on my gps that's good enough for me,how close do you want to hunt to private?

Similar principle yeah, google earth heights/ground shape aren't very precise at all!

Not sure about heights, but I have used WAMS to measure several things, including my house, and it is surprisingly accurate