Thread: Log tongs vs snug chain

I recovered some very heavy logs from deep down in a gully by using a 2:1 snatch block on the log choker and a change of direction snatch block at the top of the gully so I could simply drive away with my Land Rover. A lot more refined than a straight snatch, but used quite a bit of 13mm SWR.

Got a bully now, but all that does is make you take on even bigger logs, and I still get pushed about with the odd monster Gum can be veeery heavy stuff

@223nut.
I assume your on the mainland. I would not recommend putting shock loads onto chains. Use wire rope with steel core a d proper choker bell and talurit. A double purchase opening block shackled ahead of the choker stop may halve the load.
The safest option is to use a swing boom crane of sufficient rating.
Failing this and depending on what is on top of the 15m cliff , you might consuder building an 'A Frame', the base of each leg of the A frame able to securely pivot back and forth in sockets well anchored. The crossbar of the A frame can support a snatch block. Your winch rope runs through the snatch block a d down to your log. The A frame is lowerwd so the block is suspended out over the cliff. As the log is winched up to the top the A frame can pivot on its feet to near vertical thus bringing the log over the top of the bank and laying stable in a position whence it can be unhooked and then rehooked to an extraction vehicle up on the flat. This setup requiresong strong logs or beams to construct the A frame and sold footings. You would need one winch additional to raise and lower the A frame boom as required.
Be aware of BUSHCODE Regs. Incorrect loadings on this sort of gear wire ropes chokers, deadmen and other anchors and tiebacks et al can be huge. You are talking some very hea y loads especially when trying to break out or drag over an obstruction.

Hey woody, on the island.... Didn't know about shock loading chain, will sort a wire rope before I get started again.

Hoping to replace the a frame idea with using a couple of remaining trees at the top of the bank. Rope up high with pulley on to try and stop it digging into the ground.

Whenever using winch / machinery I try and stand well clear, have seen a few 4wd recoveries gone wrong

Understood. You may be able to improve that by arranging a cantilever pole horizontally somewhere up the tree trunk in a way that you can pivot the beam sideways once the load clears the lip. Anyway , stay safe. Doing that work can be high risk and breakaways happen so fast that escape is almost impossible. Never ever stand in the bight of the rope.

Quarter the logs with your long bar and some wedges made from branches.

Or black powder if you can get it.

Trying to pull 3-4 foot thick logs with anything other than heavy machinery is a hiding to knowhere. How is that $175 per cubic going to look after you twist the chassis after pulling the wagon onto its side.

@norsk had thought about halving the log but suspect that more sharp edges will cause it to stick, one way to find out! As for twisting the chassis... Don't really want to go there as the old girl is still road legal (or at least was 2yrs ago and 50km ago before rego went on hold)

To calculate the weight of you log you can use this formula. Radiata weight is approx 1 tonne per cubic metre.
Lets assume your log is 3 metres long and 90cm diameter.
Measure diameter in metres. I.e. 0.9metre.
Halve this to obtain radius. I.e. 0.45metre.
Square this and multiply by 3.142 and then multiply by the log length in metres.
0.45*0.45*3.142*say 3 metre length = 1.9 cubic metres = nearly 2 tonnes..
You need ropes, pins and strops, shackles and rings etc EACH OF WHICH NEED TO BE AT LEAST TRIPLE THAT FOR SAFETY RATING. I.E. 6 TONNES EACH rating.

Originally Posted by 223nut

@norsk had thought about halving the log but suspect that more sharp edges will cause it to stick, one way to find out! As for twisting the chassis... Don't really want to go there as the old girl is still road legal (or at least was 2yrs ago and 50km ago before rego went on hold)

Quarter the logs,dont halve them.It sounds like you are pulling them obliquely to avoid the root plate? If so,with the gear you have,bust them into quarters,round off (snipe) the sharpe edges and get your connection point under the log as much as you can (provides lift)and towards the hillside (helps prevent rolling) and just take it from there.

You will manage and frustratingly what worked for the last bit might not work for the next bit etc,take it slowly and get well out of the way.

Originally Posted by Woody

To calculate the weight of you log you can use this formula. Radiata weight is approx 1 tonne per cubic metre.
Lets assume your log is 3 metres long and 90cm diameter.
Measure diameter in metres. I.e. 0.9metre.
Halve this to obtain radius. I.e. 0.45metre.
Square this and multiply by 3.142 and then multiply by the log length in metres.
0.45*0.45*3.142*say 3 metre length = 1.9 cubic metres = nearly 2 tonnes..
You need ropes, pins and strops, shackles and rings etc EACH OF WHICH NEED TO BE AT LEAST TRIPLE THAT FOR SAFETY RATING. I.E. 6 TONNES EACH rating.

Radiata is about 450-500kg per cubic.Oak would be about a ton a cube...
Ground resistance is the biggest enemy in this case,just to get a log moving on flat ground without lift you have to apply 130% of the logs weight to get it moving.Uphill + ground resistance = a whole lot more.

No. Green density. Sap wood. 1100kg / cubic metre
Viz
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ew_South_Wales

kind of explains why a full 3.8cube trailer makes wagon slow down a bit.....either way its plurry heavy. I remember helping LIFT a rimu log about 3' through and 10-12' long...two fellas added lift to the heuy up above screaming nuts off..we got it off ground and away it went smashing small trees n pungas till he got it above canopy and off to skid site....a flitch of 750kgs max load for jetranger wasnt very big.....

Originally Posted by Woody

No. Green density. Sap wood. 1100kg / cubic metre
Viz
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ew_South_Wales

Green density and moisture content of radiata pine in the Hume region of New South Wales
March 2012Australian Forestry 75(1)
DOI:10.1080/00049158.2012.10676383
Authors:
Julian Moreno Chan
Institute for Commercial Forestry Research
J. C.F. Walker
Carolyn A Raymond
Southern Cross University

A one meter long,one meter wide Radiata log wont scale a ton per meter. Its not a square log.

Data from New Zealand

Radiata pine is commonly regarded as a 'medium' density softwood, with typical average tree basic density values of 400-420 kg/m3. However, wood samples can cover a wide range of basic density values between 350 and 550 kg/m3.

RADIATA PINE WOOD DENSITY - Webflow

Originally Posted by Woody

@223nut.
I assume your on the mainland. I would not recommend putting shock loads onto chains. Use wire rope with steel core a d proper choker bell and talurit. A double purchase opening block shackled ahead of the choker stop may halve the load.
The safest option is to use a swing boom crane of sufficient rating.
Failing this and depending on what is on top of the 15m cliff , you might consuder building an 'A Frame', the base of each leg of the A frame able to securely pivot back and forth in sockets well anchored. The crossbar of the A frame can support a snatch block. Your winch rope runs through the snatch block a d down to your log. The A frame is lowerwd so the block is suspended out over the cliff. As the log is winched up to the top the A frame can pivot on its feet to near vertical thus bringing the log over the top of the bank and laying stable in a position whence it can be unhooked and then rehooked to an extraction vehicle up on the flat. This setup requiresong strong logs or beams to construct the A frame and sold footings. You would need one winch additional to raise and lower the A frame boom as required.
Be aware of BUSHCODE Regs. Incorrect loadings on this sort of gear wire ropes chokers, deadmen and other anchors and tiebacks et al can be huge. You are talking some very hea y loads especially when trying to break out or drag over an obstruction.

What he said.
With my 11 tonne dozer only just managing to haul a 900 dia green gum tree on a levelish muddy surface, as I nosed over the edge of a drop off to haul it to the bottom the 10mm grade 70 chain snapped like a carrot. Been used to haul hundreds of gum trees, and had been fine. Just the resistance of the log combined with the weight of the dozer going over the lip stressed the chain beyond its 12T breaking strain
Luckily chain doesn't store energy like SWR, but swr is a bit more forgiving (till it snaps)

Sounds like your recovery gear is on the edge of whats doable, and what others have suggested in breaking the load down into smaller pieces will help you grow a bit of safety factor back into your task.

Basic density of 450kg/cubic metre is at 12% .moisture content. Green density is the raw weight of a green log. It is dangerous to assume radiata logs only weigh 1/2 tonne per cubic metre. They weigh on average double that green. I've measured thousands during my career.

Originally Posted by berg243

just whip down to the wharf when its dark and just borrow some heavy fishing net ( be plenty lying around on boats not being used ). cut your logs into rings then split and just haul small lots in your new net.

Snow chains for trucks work well for rings.