Thread: Crossing show lines

You have to remember biddabillity in the show ring only has to last for 2 minutes...that is the allotted span for each individual evaluation...

Originally Posted by el borracho

It is interesting talking to people that use dogs to hunt birds that cross with show lines to slow their dogs down to a sedate pace for Jo average.

Sounds more like an excuse than a reason.

Originally Posted by Ruff

You can always find an exception to prove a non existent rule... Speckle was a freak but what else was ever produced from the same show lines? nothing...

I agree entirely, I just put both points up to stimulate discussion, I thought you would have something interesting to add to the discussion, and more importantly word it better than me Another interesting thing is being such a violent outcross Speckle never produced anything in her own league.

Mortenson was right, as he usually was, but he only used working lines himself. I believe the same things, pedigree are more likely to tell me what I don;t want than what i do. When I look over a pedigree I am more concerned with red flags than any super dogs. Leon also believed anything beyond grandparents really had bugger all influence unless it was prominent on both sides of the pedigree.

I think this is a very interesting point, anything over grandparents are 1/8 or less in the old speak... pretty minimal on their own. As a side note, there was a half show dog used by Mortenson, luckily the other half was the great FTCH Sharnberry Shooter He put this half-show half Sharnberry dog to two separate bitches, Honey and Intrigue, linebreeding on Shooter and minimising the show blood.

My experiences is that the main quality lost in using non working lines or show lines is biddibility... many of the show lines still hunt, but can be real buggers to train because no one has really selected proper hunting temperament in a while. Just my five cents worth....

Oh and the division is least most pronounced in versatiles, then labs then setters and pointers and finally is a huge freaking divide in spaniels.

Seeing other peoples hunting dogs for remedial training every day, there is probably no one here more qualified to make that statement than you. Can't make a silk purse out of sows ear! Having seen quite a few pointers lately, draws me to the conclusion that the work/show split is as obvious as night and day in that particular breed, never the twain shall meet...

I dont know Ruff but do you train others dogs ? I see from looking through dog photos you have a spaniel and a lab.

Originally Posted by el borracho

she never bred anything in her own class

That tells me everything I have to know right there.

Freaks can come from many places. What I'm chasing is consistently good dogs.

RCGSP - I couldn't even find that quote of mine you used , where was it from ?
Its a funny ol thing were talking here because there's several pups out there from this particular Northland breeder that he says people are very happy with for shooting pheasant and retrieving ducks . In saying that either their expectations are less than ours or the dogs work ok --the Dam is from working lines I believe though.
Interesting points raised so far though being bidability and trainability and also that a hunter that doesnt appreciate the finer points of working dogs should have a soft toy not a real dog ---now at what stage will we then say these mix line dogs are from working lines if they are working ??

Originally Posted by el borracho

who here uses a show dog line to hunt

Me,
2 reasons
1. Make the best of what you got
2. my hunting style is more of a walk in the wild with a gun under arm and dogs about

Different from most

with what type of dog mikee and what kind of cover.

Originally Posted by el borracho

RCGSP - and also that a hunter that doesnt appreciate the finer points of working dogs should have a soft toy not a real dog ---

See that's where it gets real interesting, cause mine are all working dogs, and X's. All hard apart from the whippet X's who are hard on the hill but soft arses at home. As a rule first crosses, but I find pure breeds ALL a arse pain. Yes I've had a few and no doubt I'll have a few more too.

Originally Posted by Wirehunt

See that's where it gets real interesting, cause mine are all working dogs, and X's. All hard apart from the whippet X's who are hard on the hill but soft arses at home. As a rule first crosses, but I find pure breeds ALL a arse pain. Yes I've had a few and no doubt I'll have a few more too.

Wirehunt are you talking crossing your dogs with different breeds ? This is really talking about pure breed bird dogs from both show and working lines being crossed and the effects from those crosses .
I take it your talking pig dogs ??

Nope, no pigdogs around here. All hard working rabbiters, which is about the hardest life there is for a dog (but a hell of a lot of fun!)
Got some bird dog X's in there though, couple of springer/foxies, GWP and about 1/8 lab. The foxie puts a bit of range into them. It might take six crosses with purebreeds to do what can be done in one with the right dog mix.

Originally Posted by el borracho

RCGSP - I couldn't even find that quote of mine you used , where was it from ?

The end of the article on that spanner

Originally Posted by Wirehunt

See that's where it gets real interesting, cause mine are all working dogs, and X's. All hard apart from the whippet X's who are hard on the hill but soft arses at home. As a rule first crosses, but I find pure breeds ALL a arse pain. Yes I've had a few and no doubt I'll have a few more too.

I mean no disrespect but breeding rabbiters isn't like breeding bird dogs. Rabbiters need to be bred/selected for a relatively small number of traits. Bird dog breeding, particularly the versatiles requires selection for a huge number of traits.

I wont hesitate to mate my dog with the 1/2 show, 1/2 working pointer i mentioned earlier

Originally Posted by RCGSP

The end of the article on that spanner

aaarrgghh yes there it is -I thought I had said it !Interesting about the sons and daughters also

Speckle of Ardoon
Keen in retirement
F.T. Ch Speckle of Ardoon at 12 years of age.

Altogether she won three Championships in succession, the only spaniel of any breed to do so, and the record remains to this day. She won the title of nine open stakes and won the Game Fair tests against springers when the test was an individual challenge and not an international team event.

Like 'Sele,' ( F.T. Ch. Dinas Dewi Sele) she never bred anything in her own class but her sons and daughters have had a tremendous influence on the breed. She retired from competition at four and a half but lived to be fourteen and four months. She was brilliant, dauntless and dangerous to know