Thread: fish and game elections

This is a thread on elections. The subject of those in A/W who have decided not to restand was raised. KWB offered his opinion on why those people aren’t restanding. I countered that he didn’t actually know the reasons. He asked me what the reasons were. I replied with what I know to be the reasons for their decisions.

I can’t explain it any simpler than that.

Hmmm -you do of course realise youll never get the protected status here than you get on the other side.If my memory serves me correctly youve popped up like a sniper before on some other issue and got your nuts handed to you on a plate. Id actually considered standing for F&G locally this year till I took the time to speak to a few wise old heads including incumbents. To put it in a nutshell I decided NO,but why I've no intention of making public on any social media least of all faeces book!

I said wow yesterday and its a double wow today! There have been some big turn ups. Apparently the dirt in the Hawkes Bay is flying both ways? I have my ear to the ground for curiosity sakes but it is one way traffic. Camp current is winning by a length or two! Would I want to be an employee of the current council based on actions (I am aware of) to date? Not a chance!! (not apportioning right or wrong to allegations either) I am quite surprised the chairman- a person I admire and think of as a huge talent has involved himself in such a way on public forums- such is the emotion of the situation. The current council could be damaging future employment opportunities in my eyes among other things that being said. The election will occur and the dust will settle. Hopefully councillors front legal bills incurred themselves should they occur.

Like most of us "out of the loop" we are left with what we can find on line. I notice the target of some very unsavoury behaviour by standing council and allies is former manager Pete McIntosh - who said in his profile "Councillors should not ignore their statutory obligation to monitor mallard populations, as is currently happening even though this iconic game bird species is in decline. Presently Hawke’s Bay is the only region in the country NOT. involved in the national mallard research projects".

From reading recent minutes it does appear that council has questioned involvement with banding and the use of transect counts. This is terribly sad as not only is monitoring a statutory requirement the standardisation of monitoring is one thing I wanted to see (as a councillor) up and down the country. It makes sense and regional data over time will become comparable with other regional trends. Wildlife management starts with population monitoring. And F&G has been woeful to this point. Why would a council question it's involvement in statutory obligations?

My fear is HB Council has hung it's hat on mallard breeding which I feel has the potential to congregate the wild population- a form of exclusive capture as the only way forward. But as I stated earlier in the thread the regions most active in breeding and commercial shooting are the ones anecdotally showing most distress among license buyers. Without monitoring you wouldn't know if the publics resource is being kept from the public?

I have little doubt there is embarrassment being caused both ways but underlying is actual issue's concerning the future of F&G as we knew it and our resource. Think about it. I will be back tomorrow with another instalment Hawkes Bay Elections Today. (way better than Reno Rumble) cheers for the entertainment.

Certainly some interesting arrangements with regards to how the ballots are drawn in HB if the emails posted on Fishnhunt are legit. Worth a read.

As for a personal argument KWB, I will continue to pull you up on matters when you are clearly just making shit up. Why don’t you inform YOURSELF of the facts, instead of simply making up stories to support your beliefs.

am i making up that the allowance of preserves in other regions was used to get them in aw
am i making up that eastern changed their local rules to allow duckshooting on properties with special conditions/preserves therefore creating a precedent where others can follow??
am i making up that doc is issueing captive mallard breeding permits to sydicates and associates of said properties??
wheres the breeding stock coming from gq and why has it never been declared as a conflict of interest??
by the bye what the fuck is a eastern manager doing in hb poking his nose into that regions election meetings??
may be he was on a stock buying trip ?? couldnt be cos aw f&g says captive mallard breeding programs are short term localised, mostly to the property the were bred on,ineffective population growers

.[QUOTE]My fear is HB Council has hung it's hat on mallard breeding which I feel has the potential to congregate the wild population- a form of exclusive capture as the only way forward[/QUOTE]

do you mean captive breeding tim?
if so then im guessing they,d have some conflict of interest issues on top of the rest of the bollocks

This is pretty disappointing stuff. I guess the stuff on the other forum is the recovered emails? If so, pretty damning.
Should the not be a red flag with so many looking for election also having a potential conflict of interest? The Game park manager?, the guides?, the bird rearer? the beater?, the caterer? Not saying there is any just transparency appears to be low.

You're not wrong there Mike! I "peeked" through "the window" but decided to reserve judgement on the leaked emails as without knowing the parties or the wider context it is hard to make safe comment?? I mean- I can see why it's been presented and how we are meant to interpret it. BUT it could simply be a young naive employee joking with two people well known to him quite unaware council and manager would end up in a bitter enough dispute to turn lives upside down?? I don't know.

If I can find out more I'll place opinion on the situation.

Certainly some interesting arrangements with regards to how the ballots are drawn in HB if the emails posted on Fishnhunt are legit. Worth a read.

i find your new found voyeurism slightly disturbing mike h
as a councillor whats your take on the current hb chairmans statements re the drop in voted in councillors to 8 and the lack of evidence to support his assertions it was and is all above board voted on and in the minutes ?somewhere??also the airing of thier dirty laundry in this way??
could there be another reason hb wanted immediate access to the computers like to see if something needs up dating?? or has been copied?? and retained?
CONFIDENTIALITY AGREEMENT the haven of the guilty/embarrsassed and the result of misbehavior on both sides of a situation
does anyone know for sure if bevan whatsherface has visited hawkes bay in the last 12 months??

I have no reason to believe the drop in numbers wasn't to ensure an election as he has said. How they went about it I'm not sure as I don't know what the process is for that.

I can't blame the chairman for coming out and putting his views out there as there's a lot of shit flying around about them so they have to be able to offer their side.

If the emails are legit and the stories of files and computers being deleted are true then there's only one party looking bad so far IMO. There's been no evidence provided to suggest the Councillors have been badly behaved.

What I dislike about all of this is the lack of respect...people are voted on to the council and squander the purpose of being there...this is not a joke, it is not a playway...when you have people paying money for a license you have a moral obligation to see that it is not one for one but one for all...the respected Mr Bill Spooner would be absolutely aghast at how things are these days...he was the most selfless of gentlemen and dedicated his life to the cause...

Eight on the council...why an even number...to be truly democratic an odd number allows for the power of veto...if the vote was even, then what?

Originally Posted by EeeBees

Eight on the council...why an even number...to be truly democratic an odd number allows for the power of veto...if the vote was even, then what?

It use to be 12, and sounds like is 12 on most councils, so no real difference there. This is almost as good as the dog section. Entertaining reading.

Originally Posted by Mike H

I can't blame the chairman for coming out and putting his views out there as there's a lot of shit flying around about them so they have to be able to offer their side.

If the emails are legit and the stories of files and computers being deleted are true then there's only one party looking bad so far IMO. There's been no evidence provided to suggest the Councillors have been badly behaved.

I'd agree but on one level your two statements contradict each other.

Originally Posted by Mike H

I can't blame the chairman for coming out and putting his views out there as there's a lot of shit flying around about them so they have to be able to offer their side.

Can you provide links to the pages/ forums/ websites where the chairman has had "shit flying" at him? Currently we only have a suggestion this has occurred.

Originally Posted by Mike H

There's been no evidence provided to suggest the Councillors have been badly behaved.

In the employment dispute or on social media?

I know nothing of the employment dispute and neither should you? Social media- It's one way traffic. There is a possibility current council is 100% squeaky clean and plays no part in the relationship breakdown council are playing out. However from minutes I have read I have some confusion of what role council thinks it has i.e are they micro managing rather than governing? Setting policy which is its role rather than managing it's own affairs for example. If this didn't play some part in the breakdown I'd be very surprised. The manager manages the outcomes for the policy set by the governors. Councillors are not the managers and not the employers of the staff.

BAD BEHAVIOUR- From a personal observation current council has provided the special meeting minutes within days of the meeting, when the regular meeting minutes from their August meeting have yet to be made available. The content of the special meeting minutes haven't even been confirmed. To an impartial reader it is pretty clear those minutes have more to do with a break down in a relationship and campaigning against an individual rather than the moral conducting of business in a regular manner. So on that level as I have stated the council and chairman have shown a lack of class and behaved badly. I have also said there is not a chance I would want to be employed by them. Look at the potential treatment.

Did I read the current secretary is dishing dirt to current council for airing on public forums. Why would she be asked or get involved? Does council have some damning emails on the secretary? But thats not poor behaviour either.....

Think of it like this Mike. If Greg Duley turned up on national TV in a straight jacket foaming from the mouth tonight he would still be voted back on council on name recognition alone. That is basically how elections work. Greg doesn't need to embroil himself in character assassination and public slinging matches- unless he wants to cloud relevant issue's.

[QUOTE]I have no reason to believe the drop in numbers wasn't to ensure an election as he has said. How they went about it I'm not sure as I don't know what the process is for that.[/QUOTE]
a]not the point
b]how long you been a southland councillor mike h ??presumembly it would have to be proposed 2nd,d and the national councill would have to be involved either before or after??
what i do find incongrous i apparently the other side of the hb debacle is saying plenty but all we are getting is the chairman/councills side??
guess if you couch your shit slinging in lawyers calls and fiegned courtesy its different from calling a spade a spade over there at least

[QUOTEI have been told that the council cannot reveal the main reason why the previous managers employment was terminated as his lawyer demanded a confidentiality agreement.

Some very dodgy sh*t going on][/QUOTE]

a] what leverage did have have to demand anything??
b]you said a mouthful there pal