Thread: Lead in .410 vs steel in 20

Just wish Bismith was not so expensive.

i hear that
id still have the 20 if boss plated bismuth or even heavy bismuth was avaliable and wasnt dearer than petrol.

Originally Posted by mikee

light 20ga is a great upland gun but a 12ga is more cost effective to shoot.
20ga steel if you can find it is OK, did I just say that
If he is 12 consider a light 12ga (stock cut to fit and shorter barrels) if he can manage it OK and find some 24gm trap loads (yes steel) if 25 to 30 yards is you max range they should work OK
Other than that .410 will be fine for what you want at those ranges

20g Benelli with patternmaster choke and lead will beat ALL the high priced other weaponry hands down. Sad a pleasure in life is being rolled away.

Looking around last night online it looks like getting normal 12g steel loads is going to be difficult this year let alone 20g or light specialist loads

Originally Posted by rusl

Looking around last night online it looks like getting normal 12g steel loads is going to be difficult this year let alone 20g or light specialist loads

If it arrives at all then it will be just before shooting season starts. The Mary Arms 20ga Steel (mixed size shot) @ $30 for pkt 25, worked really well for me. It is 3 inch so in a very light 20ga it boots a bit. I buy what I can when I find it.

Have 8 packets of Mary Arms 20 gauge 3" steel if anyone is in need. Used it in 20g 11/87, wasn't too much for young fella, he's gone to 12g.

I started out with a Rossi single shot .410 and loved it. Light gun but still very little kick. Then graduated to the same gun in 20 gauge, it kicked pretty bad and the thicker pistol grip and stock didn't help as it made me punch my nose when I wrapped my hand over the stock. Was made like that as the frame had to be bigger for the bigger guage.

If you don't reload ammo for either option is going to be expensive, at least .410 lead is going to be easier to find. If he can handle it a light gas semi-auto 12 gauge is not a silly option. There's plenty of light steel loads available and no need to upgrade.

Originally Posted by Got-ya

Just wish Bismith was not so expensive.

You can buy for 55 a kg then reload it. If your reloading. I managed to pick up abput 3kg in a auction thrown in which I was stoked with. If the ammo. Is going to be hard to get ill shoot a sxs and be picky with my shots. I tested some reloads out in pigeons at around 40m with good results. Not a cheap way of doing it though.

Originally Posted by tetawa

Have 8 packets of Mary Arms 20 gauge 3" steel if anyone is in need. Used it in 20g 11/87, wasn't too much for young fella, he's gone to 12g.

Sold.

The 20 gauge with steel will beat the .410 hands down.
My son has shot his 20 gauge since he was about 9 and he is now 15. I keep thinking I should get him a 12 gauge but this season gone with steel he shot the best he ever has. I think the extra velocity over lead meant he didn't make the error of not leading the birds enough.
The steel I got patterned really well out at 40 yards also and as most of our shooting is under 30 yards he hardly missed a duck.
However if he is 12 years old I would almost be thinking of skipping the 20 gauge and going straight for a 12.
Falcon make a 30g load and also if the longest shots are 30 yards as you said falcon also bring out a couple of different steel clay target rounds, 1 comes out in 6s but even if you couldn't get ahold of them and could only get the 7s I'm picking they would smoke ducks out to 25 and be nice and mild to shoot.
Just a thought.

the steel clay loads are HOPELESS... as the velocity is too slow....if they were at normal steel speed,sure they would be awesome...but at 11-1200fps they are pitiful...I bought a box to try finish off woundies... epic fail.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

the steel clay loads are HOPELESS... as the velocity is too slow....if they were at normal steel speed,sure they would be awesome...but at 11-1200fps they are pitiful...I bought a box to try finish off woundies... epic fail.

no good for even on a night pond mickey???

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

the steel clay loads are HOPELESS... as the velocity is too slow....if they were at normal steel speed,sure they would be awesome...but at 11-1200fps they are pitiful...I bought a box to try finish off woundies... epic fail.

Totally agree with this statement. Steel relies on speed to kill, no speed equates to no penetration and lots of wounded birds.
A .410 with 11/16 lead loads may have less of a pay load but just watch how well they penertrate and kill cleanly.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

the steel clay loads are HOPELESS... as the velocity is too slow....if they were at normal steel speed,sure they would be awesome...but at 11-1200fps they are pitiful...I bought a box to try finish off woundies... epic fail.

What ones did you get?
I'm sure I saw a write up somewhere where someone used the falcon claybird steel rounds and shot geese and everything with them.
28grams of steel 6s going at 1250 fps under 25 yards surely would kill a duck. Might have to try track down some to test.

so if you apply the old rule of two shot sizes IN REVERSE ..... you asking 28grms of #8s to kill birds...yeah sure if everything is in your favour...NO WAY will you break bones....
the difference between an oz load of #6-7-8s and a 1 1/4oz of #4s back in the lead only days was huge...less wounded birds with #4s


I find steel #-2s or #3s work much much better for us than #4s.....and yes we have tried a few different #4s

the thing with .410 is you HAVE to realise its limited payload and stick to under 30 yards...under 20 is better still...I recall thinking I was some kind of Davey Crocket x dead eye dick when shot a hare at 30 paces......it was 20 paces more than my usual shots on rabbits,often would get into less than 10....I used the wee .410 to good effect by getting in close.

I reloaded for our son and used mixture of shot sizes #3-4-5-6-8 all in together,the difference between a 3/4oz load and 1/2oz load is huge....and many folks buy the 2 1/2" shells and wonder why they struggle to kill birds,there is simply sweet fcuk all pellets to do anything,some loads RIO for one are LESS than half n oz...totally completely hopeless for anything....

the box of steel clay loads were by gamebore and I THINK were #8
I used 8 of them rapid fire through defender at possum up pine tree who was keeping us awake in camp...just cause I could...in morning instead of a dead possum hanging from branches there was a blind possum very much alive (I felt like shit) it was soon dispatched with .410
and the .410 is deadly on possums in trees,full choke load of #4s and they die very nicely indeed.

as for writeups of folks killing geese with steel clay loads....I remember reading article where fella shot zebra with a 17/06!!!!!!! one has to feel sorry for zebra.

if ducks are facing you wings out neck stretched,they arent hard to kill,1/2 second later they flared away after burners lit and tail on to you....definately a lot harder to kill cleanly then. you gots to break bones.....