Thread: no lead from 2021

=gonetropo;604145]problem is it will start with no lead for ducks near water etc and end up as a total lead ban. you have to realise the people that make laws and more importantly their advisers are fuckwits

think we.l be okay the sight of people shooting each other with richocheting steel while indulging in the easter bunny hunt or any other rabbit control will keep lead in the game for a while yet.
same with clay shooting
t

you have to realise the people that make laws and more importantly their advisers are fuckwits

don't know that I,d characterize everyone involved in these decisions that way.
but I do feel a little tag teamed by some founding members of the reach around club fortunately not the clever ones.

Originally Posted by gonetropo

problem is it will start with no lead for ducks near water etc and end up as a total lead ban. you have to realise the people that make laws and more importantly their advisers are fuckwits

Shortly followed by lead free rifle ammo mark my words, but them we will all either adapt.............................or give up as the case may be

From the F&G Article:
“Lead shot will be progressively phased out from 2018 for waterfowl hunting over and around large bodies of water, so by the time the 2021 season begins, all hunters will be using non-toxic shot for this type of hunting,” Bryce Johnson says.

Originally Posted by mikee

Shortly followed by lead free rifle ammo mark my words, but them we will all either adapt.............................or give up as the case may be

Barnes

Originally Posted by Eyesplice

From the F&G Article:
“Lead shot will be progressively phased out from 2018 for waterfowl hunting over and around large bodies of water, so by the time the 2021 season begins, all hunters will be using non-toxic shot for this type of hunting,” Bryce Johnson says.

sweet we.l give Bryce a ring he,l have asked distributors and importers about whose gonna take up the slack and supply us??............................not fuckin likely

Shortly followed by lead free rifle ammo mark my words, but them we will all either adapt.............................or give up as the case may be

we can learn from our cuzzies across the tasman and get used to throwing bent fuckin sticks at them

From: Don Rood <drood@fishandgame.org.nz>
To:
Sent: Thursday, 15 June 2017 11:55 AM
Subject: Enquiry







Dear Kevin,



Thanks for your email asking about what inquiries were made of importers and distributors about the decision to extend the mandatory use of non-toxic shot for waterfowl hunting to all shotguns except .410s.



Fish & Game has written to all major ammunition importers and retailers to inform them of the decision. In addition, the board of Hunting & Fishing has been briefed on the decision.




Some ammunition importers already have non-toxic sub –gauge ammunition available and internationally, the major ammunition manufacturers in the United States and Europe are already making non-toxic shotgun ammunition in 16, 20, 28 and .410.




This non-toxic shot includes steel, tungsten, tungsten matrix, bismuth and zinc.



The four year phase-in period for the need to use non-toxic shot will allow importers time to adjust their orders and inventory and gauge customer demand for the new ammunition they will need to bring into the country.


If you have any other questions, please do not hesitate to ask,



Regards




Don Rood | Communications Manager

New Zealand Fish & Game Council

Level 1, 2 Jarden Mile, Ngauranga, Wellington | PO Box 13141, Wellington 6440

P +64 4 499 4767 | F +64 4 499 4768

a reply fromf&g and my digs
B]Fish & Game has written to all major ammunition importers and retailers to inform them of the decision. In addition, the board of Hunting & Fishing has been briefed on the decision.
[/B]
arse about face but no surprises there
B]Some ammunition importers already have non-toxic sub –gauge ammunition available [/B]and internationally, the major ammunition manufacturers in the United States and Europe are already making non-toxic shotgun ammunition in 16, 20, 28 and .410..[/B]
who where and not just gq,s private supply of trap loads at a 20 case minimum

B]The four year phase-in period for the need to use non-toxic shot will allow importers time to adjust their orders and inventory and gauge customer demand for the new ammunition they will need to bring into the country.

[/B]
give you just enough time to flick your 20 at a lesser loss than if you wait 4 years for this fallacy to happen

You also ask what information Fish & Game has on how many hunters use sub-gauge shotguns. A 2009 survey of more than a thousand waterfowl hunters showed that the vast majority – 89% - used 12 gauge shotguns.



Only four percent said they used a subgauge – most of them were 20gauge users.



Of the more than a thousand hunters questioned, only five said they used 16g shotguns and three said they used a .410.



Six percent didn’t answer the question or didn’t know what shotgun they used
.[QUOTEThe importer of Federal ammunition is Sportways and that company can supply two different loads;





I hope this helps,

give me fuckin strength a 8 year out of date survey.
.[QUOTEThe importer of Federal ammunition is Sportways and that company can supply two different loads;



Black Cloud Steel 20g 3" 1oz #2 - steel, wad, tightens, patterns, long, range, ... - Sportsways Distributors Ltd



There is also an especially designed 20 ga load for closer range shooting available now in New Zealand;


Black Cloud CLOSE RANGE 20g 3" 1 oz #2 - black, cloud, close, range, put, pellets, ... - Sportsways Distributors Ltd
][/QUOTE]

if its even available I,l know tomorrow but I'm sure they aint cos I bought 3 0f the seven boxes in the country.
but they,re only available in 2,s they kick like 10 bastatrds and are 39 to49 buks a box if you can get them.
as we now know the larger shot sizes are shite for ducks.

what a long winded read...but I waded right through BEFORE adding anything.
1st off target products WERE saying on web site they were bringing out lighter (1oz 7/8th oz ) .12ga loads soon and they didnt happen...... bugger they havent as they work plurry well...been there done that.
2nd steel loads sucked when we first got it..no arguments there,everyone was running scared ant the loads were simply too slow,once speeds got above 1400 fps they worked.
3rd where are the wounded ducks we are supposed to be getting with steel?????? we shoot a lake and have done so for 17 consecutive opeing weekends,this year we found only 1 single wounded bird and that was picked up by my dog,did get 1 single bird from out in the lake but in previous years going back 4 or 5 we would pick up 6-10 each and every time,our son learnt to shoot finishing off woundies from the boat using the wee .410.
4th and last if you want to shoot subguage get off your arse and start putting the hard word on local sports shop to get you in some ammo,or play nice and ask those who say they can get it...

oops forgot to add,we prefer size #2 for ducks now after trying loads of other stuff over that 17 year period
the lake we shoot means we either kill em in close or range gets long quickly, the bigger pellets do this well or miss them completely the chance of a canada or 7 also means big pellets pay off for us.

3rd where are the wounded ducks we are supposed to be getting with steel?????? we shoot a lake and have done so for 17 consecutive opeing weekends,this year we found only 1 single wounded bird and that was picked up by my dog,did get 1 single bird from out in the lake but in previous years going back 4 or 5 we would pick up 6-10 each and every time,our son learnt to shoot finishing off woundies from the boat using the wee .410.
4th and last if you want to shoot subguage get off your arse and start putting the hard word on local sports shop to get you in some ammo,or play nice and ask those who say they can get it...

so still with early steel loads??

4th and last if you want to shoot subguage get off your arse and start putting the hard word on local sports shop to get you in some ammo,or play nice and ask those who say they can get it

believe me I'm trying outdoor adventure sports[who deals with fiocchi gamebore others], no local hunting and fishing /nationwide ,no, hull importer no minimum orders required to.
agree steel 2,s In 20 gauge fine on geese but the 20 stringing problems mean 3,s and 4,s are going to be needed.
I think we can agree that fast 3 inch 1 ounce payloads of 2 shot aren't the ideal duckload.

gsp follower


yes the early slow steel loads were shite...pure and simple

a 1oz load of steel #2s going 1500fps is a good duck or goose killing load......with the right choke and within sensible range.....as is a 7/8th oz load.
(maybe not the best...for my money the 1 1/8th oz load of #2 or #3 doing 1550fps is pretty plurry hard to go past)
the light loads are plurry LOUD but kill well
been there and prooved it while getting the young fella used to the .12ga
we then went to 30 grm////// 1 1/16thoz factory loads from gamebore
not because they were better but because making reloads with a old whackamole loader takes time and not all shells resized properly so ok in the single barrel but gave issues at times in other guns.

When I asked a client if they preferred us using copper bullets it was a NO, seems that is worse for the ground than lead. Now I assume f&g have gotten full toxicology reports on all the metals involved in 'no toxic shot' and it complies with all the organic paperwork. If not why not? Has f&g even thought about this?
Walk onto the wrong property with something non-compliant and watch them start jumping, they spend a truckload of cash getting that bit of paper and keeping it. -Be a shame if they came after f&g-

I catch anyone out rabbiting with me and the dogs using steel and they will probably find their flash gun;
A: Wrapped around their head.
B: Having a new extension out of their arse.
C: A combination of A and B unless I had a flash and thought of something even better to do with said gun.

Originally Posted by berg243

they going to bring in 410 non toxic?.stopped duck shooting because of all this bullshit with the non toxic rules have seen /shot less ducks in the last few years but have seen more dead ducks lying around long ways from anyone shooting mainly because the hawks are finding the bodies.if the greenies get their way and duck shooting is stopped how are they proposing to control duck numbers as they will become a major pest within a couple of years poison maybe ?has anyone pointed this out to them.

They don't care. They just want firearms out of private hands. They think big picture and take a long view.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

gsp follower


yes the early slow steel loads were shite...pure and simple

a 1oz load of steel #2s going 1500fps is a good duck or goose killing load......with the right choke and within sensible range.....as is a 7/8th oz load.
(maybe not the best...for my money the 1 1/8th oz load of #2 or #3 doing 1550fps is pretty plurry hard to go past)
the light loads are plurry LOUD but kill well
been there and prooved it while getting the young fella used to the .12ga
we then went to 30 grm////// 1 1/16thoz factory loads from gamebore
not because they were better but because making reloads with a old whackamole loader takes time and not all shells resized properly so ok in the single barrel but gave issues at times in other guns.

that loadis a cracker doesn't boot to much and is a proven killer on geese and ducks in 2 and 3,s outdoor adventure even had it in 4s to if I remember right.
.the 3 inch 20 gauge blackcloud load pure and simple is a shoulder smackin arsehole of performance in 2 shot on anything smaller than a medium sized Canada goose.
it might be ok in 4shot but believe me shooting at funny angles with it aint much fun if the 2 shot load is anything to go by.


Quote Originally Posted by berg243 View Post

they going to bring in 410 non toxic?.stopped duck shooting because of all this bullshit with the non toxic rules have seen /shot less ducks in the last few years but have seen more dead ducks lying around long ways from anyone shooting mainly because the hawks are finding the bodies.if the greenies get their way and duck shooting is stopped how are they proposing to control duck numbers as they will become a major pest within a couple of years poison maybe ?has anyone pointed this out to them.

The only exemption will be for the small bore .410 shotguns which are sometimes used by beginner hunters and for which humane non-toxic shot loads are not available.”

no the 410,s still exempt which raises more questions than it clears up.

what really fucks me right off is f&g are big on science and latest infomation to bash,[ and rightly so] certain areas, and PRACTISES IN FARMING.
but when it comes to us licence buyers 93 buks a year gets us f&g land sold to doc and a rangi bloody survey of 1,000 odd shooters from 2009 and thats considered good enough info and cause ?????
YEA FUCKIN RIGHT

3" 20 guage is a bit of a hard case...sort of like the 3.5" roman candles in the .12ga
you push a big payload out of small bore and its going to hurt,either of those shells with smaller payload wont boot the same.
push a 1oz load out of either and it will be mild...up the .20ga to 1 1/4 and you starting to ask a falcon to fit into a minis parking space,the payload will be longer and harder to get moving as it has to squeeze its way through.
push a 3/4 oz load at 1300fps out of ANY of the guages with same weight shotgun and felt recoil SHOULD be similar the pattern board would be interesting.
trouble is and always has been when you get lightweight gun and feed it heavy loads.