Thread: Non toxic subgauge ammo

Originally Posted by Kiwi-Hunter

Don't mean to jack the main thought of the post.
I've been a fan of the classic browning in 20g! wanted to get hold of one at one point.
But ended up with the benelli M1 which is okay now that I have it! because of the 3" factor.
Post a picture of it or email me with a picture please. Year's ago there was one in 16g on tm, one of the should of.
KH

I have one that’s a light 20 so 2 3/4 and a Magnum 20 in 3”

Originally Posted by Perazzimx8

Gunworks have Bismuth for sale I have some on the way to try for a couple of old Belgium Browning A5 20ga I have.

I have seen a couple over the years but they were 2 1/2 inch chambers so have let them go.

Originally Posted by Got-ya

I have seen a couple over the years but they were 2 1/2 inch chambers so have let them go.

has falcon come up with that bismuth load yet??

We do have some bismuth coming our way quite soon. For reloading it can be ordered via Gunworks in Christchurch or any other reseller of reloading gear you could approach depending where you are. Looks like it’s being sold for $55.00 a kilo at retail which is a pretty fair price considering what it costs. It’s just one size #4 at this stage we will have available and it will be tin plated bismuth shot. We are considering a 12 gauge bismuth waterfowl cartridge of around 34-36 grams a bit like our SP 36 lead load equivalent but things are still being worked on so nothing finalised right at the moment. It has a different density to lead of course so we have to start with the basics and learn a bit about it. It will be more expensive but that’s the nature of the cost of bismuth which I think everyone already knows. It will be a Falcon brand cartridge loaded by us in Timaru. No idea at the moment when the first production will be run but things might happen quite quickly before opening day

Originally Posted by gsp follower

has falcon come up with that bismuth load yet??

Will be good when they do. Hopefully it’s a bit less than the Eley I got from H&F at $99. Would be nice to shoot my Grandfather’s old A5 a bit more. At $55 a kg for the shot I don’t think loading anything more than 7/8oz 20ga would be viable from what I can work out.

Originally Posted by Perazzimx8

Will be good when they do. Hopefully it’s a bit less than the Eley I got from H&F at $99. Would be nice to shoot my Grandfather’s old A5 a bit more. At $55 a kg for the shot I don’t think loading anything more than 7/8oz 20ga would be viable from what I can work out.

Yeah for the 32g 20g load I use thats $1.77 a shot before I even add the other stuff. However thinking about it with the density difference that 32g load by pellet count will be 27.4g which is still $1.52 a shot which is better, but still too much.

Originally Posted by Perazzimx8

Will be good when they do. Hopefully it’s a bit less than the Eley I got from H&F at $99. Would be nice to shoot my Grandfather’s old A5 a bit more. At $55 a kg for the shot I don’t think loading anything more than 7/8oz 20ga would be viable from what I can work out.

i hear plated bismuth is the go now
as it overcomes bismuths tendency to fragment

Well I've just got current prices for Non toxic,
ITX #4 7lbs is CAD $292.41
Bismuth #6 7lbs shot is 246.98,
Nickel plated lead shot #6 $94.98
lead shot #9 25lbs is $75

Ouch, last time I bought the CAD, was higher than the US dollar, now 30c less, brutal.

I've got #4 Itx and #6 bismuth as well as the nickel ordered, last of the supplies in Canada, supplier not sure if/when any more coming given the USA gun buying spree,
He said last order was 40% of requested items.
debating on a bag of #2 ITX for geese, almost work out cheaper to by a new 12ga, and shoot steel instead.

Originally Posted by Got-ya

Yeah for the 32g 20g load I use thats $1.77 a shot before I even add the other stuff. However thinking about it with the density difference that 32g load by pellet count will be 27.4g which is still $1.52 a shot which is better, but still too much.

Out of interest what sort of Hull, Wad, powder are you using. My 20ga lead loads have all been AA hulls and claybuster wads but I’m not sure as most of the recipes I find for Bismuth are using a Remington wad.

Originally Posted by gsp follower

i hear plated bismuth is the go now
as it overcomes bismuths tendency to fragment

It would be nice to get some of the Boss Shotshells that are available in the states.

Originally Posted by Perazzimx8

Out of interest what sort of Hull, Wad, powder are you using. My 20ga lead loads have all been AA hulls and claybuster wads but I’m not sure as most of the recipes I find for Bismuth are using a Remington wad.

Hulls are just straight wall 2 3/4 trap load pickups. Powder is Winchester 540 but when that is gone will be using Hodgdon HS6 which is equivalent. Wads are just what Brian Thompson (who is now down your way) supplied me. Its not the fastest load in the world but well led ducks fall down. Make sure you pattern your load as shot sizes above 5 will often not pattern well though a 20g.
Gun is a Browning Gold Fusion.

Well I still have a few wads for reloading if a good alternative can be had.
Or just 12g steel and I don't like the thought of the shoulders being abused.
Rock and a hard place for me, or move away from the ducks.
KH

.12ga steel isnt all bad and loads of 30-32grms do kill ducks ok.....falcon and winchester both put out good loads in that weight.the winchester is better for me.....
taken more than a few big canadas with steel now too,#2s work well for just about anything,smaller shot sizes might have denser pattern...but #3s are a good option for us...jump or lake shooting...tried lots of different steel #4s and cant say Im a fan.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck;1124351[B

].12ga steel isnt all bad and loads of 30-32grms do kill ducks ok.....[/B]falcon and winchester both put out good loads in that weight.the winchester is better for me.....
taken more than a few big canadas with steel now too,#2s work well for just about anything,smaller shot sizes might have denser pattern...but #3s are a good option for us...jump or lake shooting...tried lots of different steel #4s and cant say Im a fan.

No just mostly bad, and "OK" is hardly a ringing endorsement. Density always wins.

Originally Posted by Perazzimx8

It would be nice to get some of the Boss Shotshells that are available in the states.

hallelujah your preaching to the already converted if thier loads are half as good as stated bring them on
if they,d been available id a kept my 20 gauge.
bye the bye i patterned gamebores 12 gauge 30 gram steel 2.s at about 30 feet on the f&g mallard drake target.
oops
the wad went thru the middle and the steel 2.s tore holes everywhere else lol looked like a buckshot strike.
hope falcon has the sence to go for the new plated bismuth for thier loads and not repeat the mistakes others have found with it.
im usein12 bore eley vip 3.s on parries and am so far not impressed out of twin imp/cyl chokes patterns great kills not so.

Originally Posted by gsp follower

hallelujah your preaching to the already converted if thier loads are half as good as stated bring them on
if they,d been available id a kept my 20 gauge.
bye the bye i patterned gamebores 12 gauge 30 gram steel 2.s at about 30 feet on the f&g mallard drake target.
oops
the wad went thru the middle and the steel 2.s tore holes everywhere else lol looked like a buckshot strike.
hope falcon has the sence to go for the new plated bismuth for thier loads and not repeat the mistakes others have found with it.
im usein12 bore eley vip 3.s on parries and am so far not impressed out of twin imp/cyl chokes patterns great kills not so.

I received my bismuth from Gunworks the other day which from what I can tell is the stuff from Falcon. It’s not a copper colour or anything but may be tin or a zink type plating I’m not sure. I’ll post a picture when I get home.