Thread: Is that a pukeko or a Takahe Oooops!

Originally Posted by Pointer

Frankly, no. I forget the percentage, but it is something like all the species alive at this point today are only 1% of all species that have ever existed on this planet. Extinction happens, and often for the smallest of reasons. Keeping a fat flightless pukeko alive with oodles of dosh when our own species needs all the help it can get astounds me.
I know the above statement has probably offended every kiwi who reads this so I may as well go balls deep.

Speaking of kiwis, at their present rate of decline despite our efforts they have 40 years. Sobering? Yep. Our current conservation model is as unsustainable as the species they are trying to save

not neccessarily pointer i speak as one who thought the kaimanawa horses could eat or crap on the dozy little bollock moss who 99.9%of us will never see or want to, or whatever the excuse for knockin the shite out of them was.
its interesting if something cant handle the enviroment as it exists today given intence predator and competition control methods we have now.
does it deserve to be artificially allowed to prosper in isolation where one desease outbreak or a storm could end it all. ??

Or funding dries up. If money is the only thing keeping these creatures alive, then we have already failed

What is the figure per kakapo...80,000NZD ???? not sure...

Pointer wrote...
I know the above statement has probably offended every kiwi who reads this so I may as well go balls deep.

sure does not offend me...logic...curious commodity logic, isn't it...spur wing plover, just about as dangerous to eggs and chicks of other species as the pukeko, stoat, ferret, feral cat...anyone done a population survey on our gorgeous Banded Dotterel lately...godwits/snipe etc illegal to shoot them here yet those very same birds that migrate to and from here are mist netted by the ton in the Northern Hemisphere...still, we cannot beat good old Tasmania...green twats are encouraging people to adopt a fox kit...go figure...

Imagine a push to outlaw cat ownership in NZ! Completely sensible but it will never happen, there is no money in it to justify the hearts and minds campaign they would have to use to push the idea.

At risk of going against the foundation rules of the forum, I will brush on the political nature of conservation.

Anyone who thinks that buckets of green pellets blanketing the countryside from above is in the name of conservation is kidding themselves. It's a multimillion dollar industry. Lucrative. And regardless of if the greenies think so, so is conservation. Using tax payers money (ie. yours) to sell you a concept 'for the countries good' is Macheavallian in its splendour. They very facts they spout, the ones I have quoted above, also outline that they will never succeed, but will make you feel bad about it! Brilliance.

Anyway rant over. I'm beginning to sound like Tussock

Originally Posted by Pointer

Imagine a push to outlaw cat ownership in NZ!

heyheyhey now I wont take that too personally but you have to admit that Dogs get quite a few Kiwi

Mine have never got a Kiwi. GSP was looking into a grass clump that was making a funny noise when out walked a Weka and pecked it on the nose. Weka walked back into the grass clump. Dog had a look of "what just happened?"

Let's change the flag and start afresh, rewind the speedo to nought as to speak, start again with a clean slate! And we'd still take the same road! I thinker we are screwed!

Originally Posted by gsp follower

[QUOTEDOC confirmed this morning an examination of the dead birds on the island sanctuary early this week showed they were killed by shotgun pellets]

you cant get much past those doc boys
except maybe common sence the truth and political nuetrality


you,ve obviously never heartd of stompers woody[/QUOTE]

The unofficial definition of "Stompers' happens to be that they are first required to be smaller than your boot. Therefore Takahe don't qualify.

Originally Posted by Dundee

Warning graphic image below









Attachment 39991

It looks rooted; BUT there's no holes in it mate!

Climate change-global warming- the coming ice age- whatever;- the major changes which are cyclically altering the environmental characteristics which shaped the evolution of our present NZ ecosystem will have major effects on the less adaptable species and create opportunities for new varieties to adapt. This includes vegetation, stream temperatures, runoff, erosion rates, leaf litter decomposition rates, food chain, food type and availability. The economics and forms of energy necessary to make life comfortable for humans is changing; it has to; because the existing forms we create are fast becoming too expensive and or the resources required are finite, while we continue to breed like maggots. In the meantime and concurrently we have to farm crops, meat, milk, wool, etc more efficiently from the finite arable land and probably diminishing climate resources.

The forests offer far greater potential to us as hunters and fishermen, foresters and engineers, than any Takahe or Blue Wattled Crow and IMHO that Forest and Mountain resource should be recognised and managed for what IT IS AND CAN BE; rather than regarded by extreme greens as a tree huggers prayer room. I do not believe the ecosystem will collapse if Takahe vanish. However the basic infrastructure from microbes through to the ungulates are integral to managing the whole for a far greater potential benefit than the government recognises.

I do not wish to see more viable forests destroyed for farm or urban use, but believe as a Forester that our existing forests should be expanded , diversified and managed to realise their full potential as both a spiritual/ recreational as well as economically recognised massive resource. Inherent in this are the landforms and waterways and an inherent right for all New Zealanders to have access.

I'd better stop or will start a book.

what i wonder is who they,re saving them for??
is it a sop to the preservationists or a real effort to save a unique and important species or fighting a losing battle with a ultimatly unsuited anachronism ??
should the public have a say in if the taxpayer funds it??and are we willing to give up some of our own domestic and wild species to have these endangered ones become widespread and safe again??

The changes of government structure of the public service in the eighties coincided with the then fashionable yuppie attitudes in corporates to "restructure". This process transferred power from practical management to management by bean counters and cloistered academic theorists and their inexperienced newly university brainwashed disciples, highly qualified and officially recognised as PC compliant, and therefore eminently suited to the "new' workforce management structures.

We lost the NZ Forest Service, DSIR, FRI, NZED, MOW, Internal Affairs, Acclimatisation Societies to the current self serving bureaucracies which serve themselves and fluffy feel-good twerps and Ministers who rely on advice from the academics rather than practical experienced manager. DoC and Regional Councils are classic examples of duplicitous burdensome blights on the reality , now buried, of the public common-sense and democratic process.

This takahe balls-up is symptomatic of the aftermath.

Originally Posted by Woody

The changes of government structure of the public service in the eighties coincided with the then fashionable yuppie attitudes in corporates to "restructure". This process transferred power from practical management to management by bean counters and cloistered academic theorists and their inexperienced newly university brainwashed disciples, highly qualified and officially recognised as PC compliant, and therefore eminently suited to the "new' workforce management structures.

We lost the NZ Forest Service, DSIR, FRI, NZED, MOW, Internal Affairs, Acclimatisation Societies to the current self serving bureaucracies which serve themselves and fluffy feel-good twerps and Ministers who rely on advice from the academics rather than practical experienced manager. DoC and Regional Councils are classic examples of duplicitous burdensome blights on the reality , now buried, of the public common-sense and democratic process.

This takahe balls-up is symptomatic of the aftermath.

Well put.

Trouble is, we have government Ministers (and shadow Ministers) who in the main lack expertise in the portfolios they are responsible for. This means that moulding civil servants under God-knows-what influences become the advisors to the Minister's as "experts' while the public are relegated to ineffective, expensive emasculating "submissions processes". Result? Erosion of the NZ traditional ethos, and control of NZ by bean counters (BANKS) with little or no regard for hunters and fishermen's values, let alone what we all used to know as Moral Fibre and the "Fair Go".

Find me an honest political party please.

Trouble is, we have government Ministers (and shadow Ministers) who in the main lack expertise in the portfolios they are responsible for

not only expertise but empathy because they know whatever happens they,re well off enough to piss off somewhere else or be guarenteed a cushy job for life by thier own govt mates or party supporters/funders. By the time the dairy fall off bites next year and the sneaky rape of more soe,s assets is realised the true incompetence and duplicitous betrayal of this country, by those who claim to love it as we do,may be to far gone to fix.
they even sdmitted theyve only spent 16,5 billion on the earthquake recovery so far they had 10 billion owing when they got in now we are upto 70 billion in debt with more planned borrowing ???
the list of incompetent/puppet ministers is unbelievable, guy, parata, tolley, lotuinga, smith,woodhouse, bridges, english. and that dont include the members kicked out for fraud or misbehavior.??
[QUOTE]Woody, we have gone through easy times, and so we just lost interest in democracy. [/QUOTE]
yep and replaced with foccussing on our own self interest and begrudging groups who got any money, even if it was redresss, from the govt, to the detriment of our whole country