Thread: 1080 KILLING FISH

Going to see the Graf Bros show their docos at the Albert Town Pub (near Wanaka) on the 8th. I have seen bits before but will be good to get along for a look and meet a few other locals who are thinking that there is a better way.

Originally Posted by Wirehunt

That's right Woody, and there is a scientific paper about that somewhere. Along with another couple of interesting facts.

Is this it??


What chemicals can manufactured 1080 break down into and how? The carbon-carbon bond in the sodium mono-fluoroacetate molecule is less stable (weaker) than the carbon-fluorine bond, and so over time and with hydration (adding H~), sunlight can break the bond down, and the molecule can degrade into sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO~) and methyl fluoride (CHEF). This could happen if the molecules are lying for some time in surface water in sunlight. How likely is this to be the situation in a forest? If the molecules have entered streams or ground water, they are also unlikely to break down via sunlight.
The chemical equation for this possible break down, if it occurs, is:
CI |2FCOONa + H2O = NaHCO3 + CH3F with all elements and their symbols accounted for.
Methyl fluoride is a volatile fluoro-hydrocarbon which rots the ozone layer and contributes to the ozone hole! (Now - there is an emotive statement!)
Sodium bicarbonate is a metal salt (common name baking soda). Metal salt is the general scientific term for a positively charged metal ion (Na+) joined to a negatively charged ion of an element, or a radicle (group of elements behaving like an element) - in this case the bicarbonate ion (HCO3). It is this term (metal salt) which may have contributed to the "salt and vinegar' story.'
The salt and vinegar story.
Some claim that hydration (adding water, as in rain) spontaneously causes the dissociation of the fluorine and a4.~tate part of the 1080 molecule. This in turn has led to the "myth', often and recently repeated that it breaks down into harmless by-products, namely "salt and vinegar" 1,2
Salt (or common table salt) is sodium chloride (NaCI). Vinegar (or acetic acid) is CH3COOH.
Sodium monofluoroacetate cannot "break down" into salt and vinegar. It does not contain the element Chlorine (Cl) so cannot form table salt. Vinegar is not a product of the degradation of sodium monofluoroacetate.
Figure 1 shows the structure of an acetate ion. 3 Adding one hydrogen atom to it could indeed produce CH3COOH (acetic acid or vinegar). However, water (H20), has two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen one. What happens to the other hydrogen atom and the oxygen one? You cannot rip off part of a molecule unless all components of both chemicals (acetate ion and water) have been accounted for.
This is impossible anyway, because the acetate ion is not the negative ion present in 1080. It is the monofluoroacetate ion which is present. Simply adding H20 to monofluoroacetate (CH2FCOO-) does not happen, and if it could, it cannot produce vinegar. There simply are not the right number of atoms present.
When water is added to sodium monofluoroacetate it "dissolves" but dces not lose its integrity. It is diluted as the molecules are spread out in water (like dissolving coffee in water), but the molecules remain as sodium monofluoroacetate molecules.


Originally Posted by hanse

Going to see the Graf Bros show their docos at the Albert Town Pub (near Wanaka) on the 8th. I have seen bits before but will be good to get along for a look and meet a few other locals who are thinking that there is a better way.

now we all just have to sit and wait for our next dose of this rubbish poison....they're ticking the districts off one by one. According to Clyde, they're also now 'allowed' to (not that they weren't already) dump it straight into creeks and streams. I heard through the grapevine that a deer farmer had a bucket of 1080 'accidentally' dumped into his paddocks because the chopper pilot didn't allow for wind.....in the Piriongia drop...don't know if it's true. But supposidly it wiped out 90% of his deer, so he's suing doc. I hate the stuff - I hate what it's done to our forests...and what it's still doing. I hate the lies that those who profit from it keep spouting. There's plenty of people out of work who could easily make a living from trapping.... I know 3 families that survive quite nicely from trapping. Rant over.

Here is a link from F&G

1080 - What you need to know. | Fish & Game NZ

More here.............

NZFFA President David Haynes Report Oct 2014 | North Canterbury

seriously wish to support an organisation properly set up to fight 1080 then go here.

The NZ Wildlands Biodiversity Management Society Incorporated.

C/o ESPC, PO Box 1700
Taupo, NZ.

www.1080.org.nz

NZ WBM is a fully registered society which aims to see New Zealand free of 1080 and similar poisons spread throughout our back country environment, rivers and streams. We have within our membership many talented and dedicated people who work together in a lawful way to bring awareness to the public and to government the actual and potential harm caused by indiscriminate use of these poisons. Research and monitoring of effects on wildlife, water and plants is ongoing. NZ WBM supports ethical hunting and the informed management of our introduced game animals and fish, including trout, pigs and deer, pheasants and quail as recreational and food supplement resources.
In order to help us protect our country and our wildlife assets we would appreciate any assistance or donations (tax deductible). Donations may be made to NZWBM c/o ESPC, Box 1700 Taupo; OR by DIRECT CREDIT TO Bank Acc No’ 020428-0080339-000
Please provide full contact details if you wish to receive a receipt.
Any information you may have concerning misuse or negative effects of 1080 use can be communicated to the addresses above.
Please feel free to enquire about membership.
On behalf of NZ WBM Society Inc.
Graham Sperry. Chairman.

1080, PINDONE and TALON (brodifacoum) are harming our environment, because they are being broadcast and will kill any creature, (including our game animals and wildfowl) which takes these poisons and any creature feeding on the carcasses. This includes our native birds and insects. The residues from rotting carcasses pollute our streams, plants, soils and water supplies creating health risks.

PESTS

There is no doubt that pests such as stoats, weasels, ferrets and feral cats do serious harm to our native birds, lizards, bats and insects. These introduced pest animals are not being properly targeted by the indiscriminate aerial poison applications which use baits primarily made of vegetable matter designed to attract deer, pigs and possums, while our valued native creatures are vulnerable.
Trout are classified as one of the world’s top 100 pests (on the MAF website), yet we manage trout and value them as a recreational and food resource.

Why should deer and pigs not also be managed as a wild recreational and food resource?
Overly high populations of deer or pigs or possums can cause harm, but in moderate densities create little harm and actually provide highly valued food, recreational and fur resources.
1080 and brodifacoum are being used to systematically destroy those assets, especially by DoC, and the resultant effects on the deer, pigs and wildfowl being of particular concern to NZWBM, quite apart from the concerns we hold for other native wildlife, our natural water cleanliness and our quality of life.

Are There Alternative Safer Methods.

Ground based methods of targeted animal control are proven success stories with much less risk to non-target animals, birds, water and the environment in general. Often these ground based methods are cheaper than using aerial 1080.
You may ask why these safer and efficient methods are not being more fully employed.

1. Because the public (YOU) of NZ is not insisting that the DoC policy of deer and pig destruction be altered to one of asset management of these.

2. Public must insist on “non by-kill risk” protection of our native species.

3. Insist on DoC targeting the real culprits, the mustelids, rats and cats, by non aerial methods.

Bovine Tuberculosis and the Animal Health Board. (AHB)
There is a myth being perpetuated that possums are the reason for the spread of bovine TB and that bTB is a major threat to NZ’s agricultural exports. We believe the main reason for the spread of bTB is ineffective management of certain infected farm stock and movement controls of that stock. Cattle brought bTB into the possum, ferret and other mammal populations, not the other way around. The report carried out by NZ Institute of Economic Research for NZ Treasury (July 2000) cast grave doubts on the claims by AHB that bTB was an existing threat to NZ agricultural exports. Certainly, possums and ferrets can catch bTB, mainly from cattle, and thereby create a hazard to nearby farms and we agree that those sources of re-infection need to be addressed; however we do not agree that this requires mass distribution of 1080 over hundreds of thousands of hectares of native forest and particularly not where ground based operators using target-animal specific methods can succeed. The AHB has definitely not restricted its use of aerial 1080 to only “remote, rugged and inaccessible terrain”; in fact its operations have killed stock on farms and adjacent to main highways.
60% of AHB funding comes from taxpayers and ratepayers and YOU need to insist the government pulls the AHB into line to stop the wholesale use of 1080 and replace it with ground based methods.

Human Health and Quality of life.
A side issue of poisoned animal carcasses falling into waterways is the proliferation of e-coli and similar nasty bacteria in water, the deposition of poisonous dead animals on beaches and stream sides, risks to public and pets there-from and the ingestion of diluted poisons into the body, along with uptake of poison into some plants; e.g. Puha. This poses a risk to traditional natural plant foods and medicinal remedies.
Past water sampling methods have not been carried out in a timely way that could properly identify 1080 contamination and the claims that only a few tests showed 1080 presence is misleading; because of the protocols used or misapplied.
There is increasing concern in the worldwide medical community about the effects of very low doses of chemicals on humans, especially foetuses. Tests on animals confirm deleterious effects of sub-lethal doses of 1080 on male fertility as well as other physiological effects.
The widespread use of these poisons in our country has to stop. Please help us to achieve that aim.

I know these pics don't look like much but it was a rotten carcuss and there is no 1080 in our area yet. Broadafacoum is on the the river banks thanks too the wankers in the council.