Thread: 1080 KILLING FISH

An alternative to. We are dropping 1080 to control TB

Accept that TB travels on the back of a truck and stop blaming the wildlife. The last three major outbreaks in NZ were in Northland Southland and Taranaki. The TB strain was traced to infected herds and poor movement control. It is Bovine Tuberculosis after all. Deal with the cattle herds and apply tighter movement control.

The Australians wouldn't listen to any bullshit about pigs, possums, deer spreading TB when I was involved in their BTB scheme. They targeted the Buffalo and Cattle herds and wiped it out and were declared TB free in 1997. The TB problem was far harder to control in Australia, especially in Northern Territory because it was so widespread among the wild cattle and Buffalo herds.

Jeez Scribe you should write stories for a living. Such drama and action. Is a nearly 20 year old newspaper clipping the best you can come up with?
I am sympathetic to the idea of wanting to be rid of 1080 but unlike the anti's I refuse to be apathetic.
You would be far better off trying to ban cigarettes, cars and quad bikes if you are really that concerned for the well being of others as that is the ground your standing on but yet still no acknowledgement of the problem that 1080 is being used to address nor any practical solution offered. Lots of hui, not much dooey.
I would love for chocolate sprinkles to be the magic bullet you seek, but they're not.

Originally Posted by kiwijames

Jeez Scribe you should write stories for a living. Such drama and action. Is a nearly 20 year old newspaper clipping the best you can come up with?
I am sympathetic to the idea of wanting to be rid of 1080 but unlike the anti's I refuse to be apathetic.
You would be far better off trying to ban cigarettes, cars and quad bikes if you are really that concerned for the well being of others as that is the ground your standing on but yet still no acknowledgement of the problem that 1080 is being used to address nor any practical solution offered. Lots of hui, not much dooey.
I would love for chocolate sprinkles to be the magic bullet you seek, but they're not.

I was warming to your passion kiwijames, but you just lost me with your dismissal of Scribe's clippings, and thinly veiled smear of his vocation.

Originally Posted by Lentil

I was warming to your passion kiwijames, but you just lost me with your dismissal of Scribe's clippings, and thinly veiled smear of his vocation.

Cest la vie. I am certainly no Pulitzer winners myself.
It was not intended as a slur more disappointment at the inability to separate emotion from reality.
To put it into perspective rather than tug at heart strings of the poor little girl who nearly died I'm sure (if I could be bothered) find more than a hundred cases of kids run over in driveways and you know the ugly rest. Kinda not necessary IMO.

Originally Posted by kiwijames

Cest la vie. I am certainly no Pulitzer winners myself.
It was not intended as a slur more disappointment at the inability to separate emotion from reality.
To put it into perspective rather than tug at heart strings of the poor little girl who nearly died I'm sure (if I could be bothered) find more than a hundred cases of kids run over in driveways and you know the ugly rest. Kinda not necessary IMO.

I think most people especially those with children would see the difference here 'kiwi James'. You can take precautions with kids and driveways.

You cannot take precautions when you don't know about something. Who would in their wildest dreams would believe that 1080 had been dropped in the cemetery, in the paddock next to the school yard and around the Marae.

I can only imagine what it would be like to find out your young child had just eaten a 1080 pellet

Actually I thought the articles above rather complimented Winston Peters news release today on having a moratorium on 1080 use and his appearance again on talkback radio on how 1080 poisoned trout is ruining NZ clean Green image overseas.

Not to mention the Campbell Live show featuring two women that had 1080 dropped on them while they were enjoying a picnic whose health may have been severely compromised.

Originally Posted by Scribe

Actually I thought the articles above rather complimented Winston Peters news release today on having a moratorium on 1080 use and his appearance again on talkback radio on how 1080 poisoned trout is ruining NZ clean Green image overseas.

Not to mention the Campbell Live show featuring two women that had 1080 dropped on them while they were enjoying a picnic whose health may have been severely compromised.

I give up

Don't worry Kiwijames, you can't use reason, evidence, peer reviewed studies and logic against the antis emotions and rumours.

I don't like the stuff but there aren't any practical alternatives.

Originally Posted by Savage1

Don't worry Kiwijames, you can't use reason, evidence, peer reviewed studies and logic against the antis emotions and rumours.

I don't like the stuff but there aren't any practical alternatives.

Sorry you don't agree to my responses to a call from 'kiwijames for proof of what is actually happening out there 'Savage 1'

You do recognise proof when you see it???

Originally Posted by Scribe

Sorry you don't agree to my responses to a call from 'kiwijames for proof of what is actually happening out there 'Savage 1'

You do recognise proof when you see it???

Well he is a policeman so probably not

This is a we poke and nothing personal savage1

Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

Well he is a policeman so probably not

This is a we poke and nothing personal savage1

Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2

Good God I hope Angus know that.

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

Well he is a policeman so probably not

This is a we poke and nothing personal savage1

Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2

You have the right to take the piss VC. If you give up the right to take the piss, anything you say will be be taken as if you're taking the piss.

Kiwijames and others who are concerned about viable solutions as alternatives to 1080.

The mantra put out by the pro 1080 vested interests and even repeated by the PCE is that 1080 operations typically cost about $8-$10 per hectare. An official independent audit of the Animal Health Board records proved the true unveiled cost to AVERAGE $57 per ha.

A very average hunter can easily cover 15 km in a round trip in bush terrain in leas than aday, especially if all he has to carry is his lunch and a cyanide tube or some traps.

Possums typically will access baits from about 2-300 metres; rats about 100 metres.

Assuming our typical semi trained DoC worker can manage 15km loops of bait or trap laying per day. 15km *1000 m * 200 metre swath coverage equals a 300 hectare treated area per day. lets assume the operator returns on anther day to recover animals, fur or traps. This means an actual coverage of AT least 150 ha per day. Now lets assume a 20% downtime factor for acess, preparation, and admin. This leaves us with 120 hectares per day actual treated area.

Now apply the AVERAGE actual audit proven cost that AHB pays for 1080 operations , overheads and admin. $57 * 120 ha equals $6840.00.

Now do you understand why AHB and DOC (whose costs will be even higher than the AHB)) don't want to encourage trapping alternatives?

Why, it would create possum and rat trapper millionaires and solve the unemployment problem overnight, and of course, put the 1080 poisoners out of a job REAL QUICK; wouldn't it KIWIJAMES.

To keep a lid in this, the poisoners pay certain trapping contractors very high hourly contract rates but with obligations to sign "non disclosure agreements' in the hope the truth remains suppressed and the trapping industry remains entrapped by it's own internal wrangling.

Imagine the queue of applicants for a registered trapping professional certification course when the true earning potential was equated to the rip off being perpetrated on the NZ taxpayers by the AHB and DoC for 1080 poisoning. Even paying trappers $500 per day would be a huge win compared to continuing with the pollution of NZ with 1080; let alone $6840 per day! (Oh, sorry, lets deduct $40 per day for traps and tucker; -- $6800-00 per day. ---

Go figure---

Then think about the 85,000 ha they are about to poison in the Maruia / Lewis Pass area, where the beech mast did not happen and where there are bugger all rats. By the way; 85,000 ha at $57 equals $4,800,000-00; of our money. Doesn't that make you happy?

Originally Posted by Woody

Kiwijames and others who are concerned about viable solutions as alternatives to 1080.

The mantra put out by the pro 1080 vested interests and even repeated by the PCE is that 1080 operations typically cost about $8-$10 per hectare. An official independent audit of the Animal Health Board records proved the true unveiled cost to AVERAGE $57 per ha.

A very average hunter can easily cover 15 km in a round trip in bush terrain in leas than aday, especially if all he has to carry is his lunch and a cyanide tube or some traps.

Possums typically will access baits from about 2-300 metres; rats about 100 metres.

Assuming our typical semi trained DoC worker can manage 15km loops of bait or trap laying per day. 15km *1000 m * 200 metre swath coverage equals a 300 hectare treated area per day. lets assume the operator returns on anther day to recover animals, fur or traps. This means an actual coverage of AT least 150 ha per day. Now lets assume a 20% downtime factor for acess, preparation, and admin. This leaves us with 120 hectares per day actual treated area.

Now apply the AVERAGE actual audit proven cost that AHB pays for 1080 operations , overheads and admin. $57 * 120 ha equals $6840.00.

Now do you understand why AHB and DOC (whose costs will be even higher than the AHB)) don't want to encourage trapping alternatives?

Why, it would create possum and rat trapper millionaires and solve the unemployment problem overnight, and of course, put the 1080 poisoners out of a job REAL QUICK; wouldn't it KIWIJAMES.

To keep a lid in this, the poisoners pay certain trapping contractors very high hourly contract rates but with obligations to sign "non disclosure agreements' in the hope the truth remains suppressed and the trapping industry remains entrapped by it's own internal wrangling.

Imagine the queue of applicants for a registered trapping professional certification course when the true earning potential was equated to the rip off being perpetrated on the NZ taxpayers by the AHB and DoC for 1080 poisoning. Even paying trappers $500 per day would be a huge win compared to continuing with the pollution of NZ with 1080; let alone $6840 per day! (Oh, sorry, lets deduct $40 per day for traps and tucker; -- $6800-00 per day. ---

Go figure---

Then think about the 85,000 ha they are about to poison in the Maruia / Lewis Pass area, where the beech mast did not happen and where there are bugger all rats. By the way; 85,000 ha at $57 equals $4,800,000-00; of our money. Doesn't that make you happy?

@Woody. This might help
QuWave Defender - Protection for Targeted Individuals from Electronic Hartassment, Psychotronic, Psychic, and Spiritual Attacks

The way I see it, those that are so for the continued use of air dropping of 1080 with no regard, are simply lazy.
They know the other options available, but are too engrained to see any reason.
It's not a matter of value for money pest control.
If the real reason to do it is for conservation and the protection of rare and endangered native creatures, there should be no consideration of costs.
If TB control is the other reason to continue to drop 1080, how come other countries have managed to get rid of TB by using other methods? And as beef isn't a conservation issue - it's a business, those in that business need to do better to control TB, and pressure needs to be put on them to do just that.

I think most NZ'ders these days have no connection to the bush or the outdoors any more. In becoming so out of touch they don't really care what is being done - so long as it doesn't effect them.
All the nice colourful pictures and videos twig and tweet, DoC and others use to promote their actions, make it easy for people to think everything is all fine and dandy.
Only the likes of the Graff brothers are really doing something to make people aware of the reality. The tactics used to discredit them is shameful imo.

More needs to be done to stop the poisoning of the game animals we all like to hunt/fish for.
More needs to be done to reduce the native fauna and flora being poisoned and killed by introduced predators.
More needs to be done to reduce/eradicate TB.
All this we can agree on I'm sure.
I don't have all the answers and I don't claim to. But I do know we can't continue to rain green poison on everything and hope all will work out.