Thread: 1080 KILLING FISH

I'm going to look at fluroacetate in tea to see what I can find.
There is a difference between sodium monofluroacetate compound and fluroacetate in plants....
So far all the headlines that are coming up are saying this is bull, though.

Originally Posted by Aly

I'm going to look at fluroacetate in tea to see what I can find.
There is a difference between sodium monofluroacetate compound and fluroacetate in plants....
So far all the headlines that are coming up are saying this is bull, though.

Yes, 1080 is a synthesised version of flouroacetate, which is claimed to be in tea.
The comparison to tea is in the context of minimum water quality standards regarding 1080. Not the suggestion that there is 1080 in tea. I agree that one sentence could be worded better.

Originally Posted by Moutere

Yes, 1080 is a synthesised version of flouroacetate, which is claimed to be in tea.
The comparison to tea is in the context of minimum water quality standards regarding 1080. Not the suggestion that there is 1080 is in tea. I agree that one sentence could be worded better.

Oh I know that, I'm saying that 1080 compound is a concentrated amount where a bait which is placed into the New Zealand environment is of certain toxicity, whereas naturally occurring it isn't a compound.

"And on the issue of 1080 being naturally-occurring, plants produce fluoroacetic acid, but manufactured 1080 is sodium monofluoroacetate. Mr Eason stated in April 2002 that "Anyone comparing 1080 poison with the naturally-occurring substance is stupid.""

^This pretty much sums up what I've found.
Science Clarified

What's found in tea leaves in nowhere near the considered toxic amount, it's incredibly low-concentrate, naturally occurring acid found in point .trillionth amounts.
It's not like you're taking a bait and dunking it in your morning Earl Grey like a sugar cube

More from F&G...

Tests reveal risk in 1080-zone trout | Stuff.co.nz

The poison found in nature is potassium fluoroacetate, which has a bitter taste which is a natural deterrent to browsing animals.

The poison used in compound 1080 is sodium monofluoroacetate which is a manufactured compound and designed to be almost tasteless and which was originally registered as an insecticide in the UK. However, authorities recognised the extreme potency and danger to users, and the fact that is could be readily taken up through the root / transpiration systems of plants, and was proven to be capable of poisoning sap sucking insects feeding on the sap of those plants feeding on the underside of leaves. It was subsequently banned from use there.

While it is commonly described as a vertebrate poison by applicants such as DoC and the Animal Health Board it is not generally recognised (some say deliberately) by permit issuing authorities or DoC or the AHB that it is an extremely lethal insecticide as well. Scientist Mike Meads was a world renowned specialist in invertebrates and both he and Notman pointed out the potential dangers and risks of poisoning the base of the environmental food chain in NZ by use of 1080. Both of them lost their jobs very soon after producing their research. DoC actively sought to discredit Meads and refused to publish his peer reviewed findings. DoC has put very minimal effort into further investigation of the implications of 1080 effects on the over all structure of forest biomass since the ERMA review in 2007 where ESPC (now NZWBM) along with several other submitters provided Mead's and Notman's science as evidence. The ERMA review (EPA) could not ignore this evidence but while recommending several courses of further research, is actually powerless to ensure such research is carried out. Another specialist toxicology professor from Victoria University described the "official" effort to find the potential dangers (for instance the long term dangers such as effects on DNA in pregnant women) as being equivalent to using a large meshed snapper net to try to catch a sprat. In other words, the correct protocols and resources for investigation did not exist or were not being applied in NZ. That scientists interview can be seen on the DVD "A Shadow of Doubt".
Very many persons in NZ and worldwide are extremely concerned at the NZ government's apparent tendency to suppress information and research effort that might reveal the potential long term harm caused by 1080 use.

Incidentally; can anyone on here tell me in detail what the over all diet is of Keruru. I have watched these birds feeding voraciously on kowhai leaves and my dogs have pointed them on the ground in forests while deer stalking or pheasant hunting. (Kaka also must have a very strong scent. My dogs will identify Kaka in trees from several hundred metres distance.) I assume Keruru are feeding on the ground, on fallen berries, but I have no proof of their ground feeding diet. Perhaps they also feed on fallen leaves, other vegetation , or even worms and insects? Could somebody enlighten me please.

Much of a pigeons water needs are provided by water trapped in the forks of trees. (These water traps also trap 1080 pellets with fatal results for these and other birds)

I have noticed over the years that in some areas pigeons are forced to come down to the forest floor to drink and bathe. I am sure they avoid doing this as much as possible as they are so awkward and vulnerable on the ground in a forest.

In saying that they will graze in open paddocks on the Coromandel where they must feel safe. I suspect they will be after clover.

That's one bird that seems to thrive on the coast considering all the local and regular poisoning. No idea why.
There are trees in kowhitirangi that you can count literally hundreds in, when they are budding.
Anyone one heard about the Glenorchy poison.
Smashed an already under threat whitetail herd.
Its gotta stop. You see ads in our paper here with "Save our birds" heading all the poison notifications in local notices and papers. Kids at school are being desensitized to 1080 as well.


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[QUOTE=R93;300396]That's one bird that seems to thrive on the coast considering all the local and regular poisoning. No idea why.
There are trees in kowhitirangi that you can count literally hundreds in, when they are budding.
Anyone one heard about the Glenorchy poison.
Smashed an already under threat whitetail herd.
Its gotta stop. You see ads in our paper here with "Save our birds" heading all the poison notifications in local notices and papers. Kids at school are being desensitized to 1080 as well.
[QUOTE]

Pigeons, tui, bellbirds, don't do to bad under the 1080 regime as they are fruit, nectar, leaf, flower grazers. The insect, seed eaters and those that hunt in the forest or eat carrion are the ones that are going missing at an alarming rate.

The Glenorcy Whitetail herd has taken a hiding alright. A scientist led a group including DOC personal into the drop zone on a fact finding mission after the drop. They found four dead whitetail, one possum and one mouse in a 4 square kilometre area grid searched.

Correct me if I am wrong, maths is not a strong point of mine. But the block poisoned is 20,000 hectares so that equates to a loss of around 50 whitetail if you were to equate the losses over the whole area.

This is not verified yet but DOC exercised quite a bit of control over the story that was released. IE, DOC are satisfied that only a small number of whitetail deer were killed) But what has not been quantified yet is the number of dead native birds found dead in the grid search.

Originally Posted by R93

Anyone one heard about the Glenorchy poison.
Smashed an already under threat whitetail herd.
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Dead deer found after 1080 drop | Otago Daily Times Online News : Otago, South Island, New Zealand & International News

Really enjoying this read Thanks you knowledgeable persons

I reckon 50 whitetail would be conservative.
50 is way to much at any rate considering the state of the herd prior to the drop.

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Deer repellent, Bird repellent????.... none of it works. How about now we try cattle repellent, Sheep repellent or even Fish Repellent now

KJ I look at from the point of view it is just plain wrong to dose the country side with 1080. I can only come to the conclusion it is driven by money. There are many other ways that could be developed to control pests we do not desire! there is not the will, it needs an independent inquiry.

Our local NZDA is starting to get a reasonable relationship with doc @rogers.270, And doc have even footed the bill to fly in large numbers of recreational hunters into ares they believe have high numbers of deer/goats etc.
The problems I personally have with 1080 are mainly that, when I walk threw never 1080d bush with a fair few possums/stoats/rats/mice the bird life is incredible.when I walk threw regularly 1080d bush it is literally dead, very little to no bird life.
Also as a hunter and conservationist I struggle to see the logic that our slow breeding native birds will recover from their by kill when the rats and mice will be back next year.
And its bloody inhumane, its a terrible death.