Thread: Salmon

Originally Posted by mikee

I would suspect from what I saw on hatchery "open days" when I was a kid, any hand male fish got mixed with any handy female fish! That was about the extent of any genetic "selection"

Salmon egg milk shakes.Seagulls loved them when the bucket got accidently knocked over.

Originally Posted by Joe Schmo

As someone who dedicated his life to salmonids in the PNW...which is where most of these documentaries and debates originate I'd take all these "fact based" studies and documentaries with a heap of salt as they will spin everything to their side of the story...Seaspiricy says the ocean will be void of fish in 20 years or some such foolishness. Also, I'd just point out...aren't your NZ "wild" salmon runs just strays from hatcheries/farms in the first place? Anyway...
Also I hope to see to Wairau at some point this season...I doubt these fish have seen many backtrolled kwikfish
Good luck to all this season!!

Our salmon came from the Sacramento river. There were 5 importations between 1901 and 1907 so I guess they were not commercial / hatchery (as we know it now) fish.

Quote: As someone who dedicated his life to salmonids

Blowhard!!

Originally Posted by A330driver

Quote: As someone who dedicated his life to salmonids

Blowhard!!

I’ve met and fished with @Joeschmo and think that the above is as far from the truth as possible, I’d call him a bloody top bloke, with a passion for all fisheries and the outdoors.

Most certainly disagree with him by all means ……..but a “blowhard” he certainly isn’t.

They released salmon into some of the Kaikoura streams a few years ago and folks are catching them whilst Kawahai fishing off the beaches now , if they will return to the release streams to spawn remains to be seen, I certainly hope so.

Originally Posted by A330driver

Quote: As someone who dedicated his life to salmonids

Blowhard!!

Perhaps you should check his credentials before passing judgement.

Originally Posted by A330driver

Quote: As someone who dedicated his life to salmonids

Blowhard!!

Perhaps both those statements are true!!

Reminds me of the blokes down at ..Buoy 10…. Reckless… unforgiving!!

Lived at Rangiata Huts on North Side 1991-1993. The fish runs were starting to lessen by then.
Last Salmon I caught in 2000 just before moving to Nelson was 28lb just below the Main road bridge.
Caught one last year in Feb, below Rakaia Gorge bridge after a day and 1/2's effort, was 12lb.
Going to try again later this month or next.

Dads best fish was Jack, 40lb10oz caught above the Rakaia Gorge bridge in the 80's. At the time it was estimated to be just over 60lb when it entered the River from the sea. Whether that is true or not I don't know but it was in such poor condition it got dug in the garden.

I know some go years without catching one or even catch very few over their fishing careers, but for me I had very good teachers and seem to have good luck when chasing them.

Originally Posted by mikee

Lived at Rangiata Huts on North Side 1991-1993. The fish runs were starting to lessen by then.
Last Salmon I caught in 2000 just before moving to Nelson was 28lb just below the Main road bridge.
Caught one last year in Feb, below Rakaia Gorge bridge after a day and 1/2's effort, was 12lb.
Going to try again later this month or next.

Dads best fish was Jack, 40lb10oz caught above the Rakaia Gorge bridge in the 80's. At the time it was estimated to be just over 60lb when it entered the River from the sea. Whether that is true or not I don't know but it was in such poor condition it got dug in the garden.

I know some go years without catching one or even catch very few over their fishing careers, but for me I had very good teachers and seem to have good luck when chasing them.

so Dads fish was huge.......the genetics were there...not all the big ones were caught,the genetics must still be there....use their milt and eggs in hatchery and see if in 10-15 years we are gaining......

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

so Dads fish was huge.......the genetics were there...not all the big ones were caught,the genetics must still be there....use their milt and eggs in hatchery and see if in 10-15 years we are gaining......

It was explained to me thus by a mate who did his masters thesis on NZ salmon with a view on the sports fishery not the commercial fishery ...
One of the issues with hatchery v wild fish is that hatchery fish are very used to living very close to each other and the competition between themselves is very intense, wild salmon not so. So we have juvenile hatchery and wild salmon coming down the river together and inevitably they will shoal up and or interact with each other. There is a favoured rock to sit behind on the journey down the river.. the hatchery fish are comfortable being cheek to jowl with each other the wild fish not so and so the wild fish are the first to be expelled from behind the favoured rock and are more exposed to predation and less feed coming past..

What it means is that those genetics that had adapted to our rivers are now no longer an advantage in fact they are a hinderance to survival ..

Super true on the density issue of H vs W sore head

I reckon the other side of the coin is that hatchery fish have been packed into a raceway and only know... "food" "pellet" movement above..."food" "pellet" so they ain't exactly street smart
However wild fish are dodging and weaving and hunting from the day they're born so they're tough...however they're also usually smaller.
There's a gigantic (several million tagged) study that looks at whether it's better to transport fish to the ocean (estuary), thus avoiding predation, or let them travel in the river and tough it out and learn and have the weak ones picked off...turns out yes it's better for overall smolt survival to transport em and yes run of the river fish survive better to adults. Classic Catch22, laterally depends on what time (day) of year they are transported, river flow, etc.

To get back to the subject...I can't imagine catching a chinook 100m from the salt as y'all do here!! They're BEAUTIFUL!!!

Originally Posted by Joe Schmo

Super true on the density issue of H vs W sore head

I reckon the other side of the coin is that hatchery fish have been packed into a raceway and only know... "food" "pellet" movement above..."food" "pellet" so they ain't exactly street smart
However wild fish are dodging and weaving and hunting from the day they're born so they're tough...however they're also usually smaller.
There's a gigantic (several million tagged) study that looks at whether it's better to transport fish to the ocean (estuary), thus avoiding predation, or let them travel in the river and tough it out and learn and have the weak ones picked off...turns out yes it's better for overall smolt survival to transport em and yes run of the river fish survive better to adults. Classic Catch22, laterally depends on what time (day) of year they are transported, river flow, etc.

To get back to the subject...I can't imagine catching a chinook 100m from the salt as y'all do here!! They're BEAUTIFUL!!!

You could be right. From memory the salmon smolt I saw released were quite small, 2 inches in length. All were about that size give or take

Yrs ago i had a scrap book with photos from news papers articals on salmon from our Southisland rivers.One photo i had was of a 57lb salmon caught in the Rakaia just below the main road bridge.Not sure of the yr,about in the early 70s i think.Fish was silver as a doller in buitifull condition.I had photos of 44,46,and 48 pounders out of the Waitaki.All photos were cuts outs from our local new papers.The scrap book got biffed out when shifting,i sure not by me tho.

In the Glenavy pub in Mervs photo cabnet diplay.Theres an old photo on me with a 13lb trout,i caught on a 6wt sage fly rod in the Tekapo river way back in the late 70s.Buitifull fish caught on a pheasant tail nymph,a battle il
never forget.No salmon farms around in those days,only real wild fish.

Favourite lure for salmon and fly?