Thread: Could be bad news

Originally Posted by BRADS

And some wonder why a.......
Hunters are becoming so lazy theres a poled route whats the difference.
Imagine a paper road going straight past ya house with your wife and young family home alone while all sorts of meatheads go back and forwards all hours of the day.
I understand what XR500 is saying but hunters have changed a lot from the 70s and 80s definitely for the worse.

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You are right with this "Imagine a paper road going straight past ya house with your wife and young family home alone while all sorts of meatheads go back and forwards all hours of the day." And we dont have to imagine it, for that is reality for tens of thousands of city dwelling NZ'ers - Crims going past casing areas for houses they can burgle etc.
If the cocky doesnt like living like the majority of the country that is tough. They can always go halves with the council and fence the roadway, which would be the sensible option.
On our old farm an unformed road went across the centre of a paddock beside the house so we just formed a vehicle access around the boundary and there were no issues.

So having had a look at the maps put up by Tahr and Reindeer the proposal to shift the access and close a section of the road looks sensible to me. I am sure that many submissions will support 'shifting' / adjusting the boundary of one section of the road if a new sensible section of road replaces it and not just an easement

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

You are right with this "Imagine a paper road going straight past ya house with your wife and young family home alone while all sorts of meatheads go back and forwards all hours of the day." And we dont have to imagine it, for that is reality for tens of thousands of city dwelling NZ'ers - Crims going past casing areas for houses they can burgle etc.
If the cocky doesnt like living like the majority of the country that is tough. They can always go halves with the council and fence the roadway, which would be the sensible option.
On our old farm an unformed road went across the centre of a paddock beside the house so we just formed a vehicle access around the boundary and there were no issues.

If that how you read my response Ryan was correct about you....


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Originally Posted by Reindeer

I can understand your sentiment Brad's but it becomes part of the thin end of the wedge. This has happened time and again in western side. First it's the vehicular access then the poles routes are gone.
Unlike the Easten side access is getting harder and harder. DoC has cocked it up in a few occasions, kawhatau was colossal screw up.

The farmers comments below.

"This is not the only access to the Ruahine National Park. There is easy access in other areas, up and down the park on both the Manawatu and Hawke's Bay sides," he said.

It's not the only access, until it is!

The eastern side is blessed with lots of great access. So was the western side, when I was a teen, that's near 20yrs ago.
Problem is once opawae is gone how long before titrangi rd, petersons and Renfrew rd?
And I can say for sure the cocky on Renfrew rd would love to shut the gate. Takapari is another problem child.

There is fault on both sides.
But because you are a landowner you don't have an arbitrary right to say no to access.

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Yeah sorry I disagree
I understand the eastern side is a different to the western side
But I don't agree with being the thin end of the wedge about access
Farmers over here are still freely giving up land for access,
Retiring land for parking of cars to make access easier.
Don't lump us all in the same boat.

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Originally Posted by BRADS

If that how you read my response Ryan was correct about you....


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If you want to introduce personal slights into the discussion, thats fine wont hurt my feelings, maybe hopefully there will be a day when your eyes can see with some maturity and balance. It matters not whether its a farmer a developer or American billionaire whos applied to close part of a public road the principal is the same 'public land becoming private land at the stroke of a pen' Now Brads, some condescending maths for you a roadway is surveyed 20mtrs wide which means every 500 mtrs of road is one hectare. How much is say two hectares of land in the area of the track worth ?

Here's my submission, if that helps anybody else. This access stuff must be protected (and access improved) where ever possible. Everyone needs to be vigilant and stand up for it constantly if we're to keep access to public land - once it's gone it's gone.

I'm writing to submit my strong opposition to the removal of the paper road as mentioned here:
https://www.mdc.govt.nz/news/2022/ro...-of-opawe-road

Paper roads have protections and access rights that cannot be changed. An easement or pathway is not the same thing. I particularly consider hunters here, as firearms can be problematic - but with a road, they are legal. By all means, move the paper road to follow the better route, but don't have it as an easement or pathway, but as a paper road - like for like.

Our backcountry is already hard enough to get to due to poor foresight from planners of the past - particularly the Ruahine ranges. To remove any kind of level of access permissions or right for the future is incredibly short-sighted for all backcountry recreation and conservation users. Surely a moved paper road with the same legal protections as the current, to follow a more sensible curve will satisfy both parties. As a country it boggles my mind that we continue to facilitate single landowners limiting (in any way, however small) the other 5 million of us's access to our forest ranges.

I hope the council makes the right call for the future.

You can find an email address to send similar to my submission if you want, on the council link here. Don't be a bystander and watch our access disappear.
https://www.mdc.govt.nz/news/2022/ro...-of-opawe-road

Originally Posted by LarryB

Here's my submission, if that helps anybody else. This access stuff must be protected (and access improved) where ever possible. Everyone needs to be vigilant and stand up for it constantly if we're to keep access to public land - once it's gone it's gone.



You can find an email address to send similar to my submission if you want, on the council link here. Don't be a bystander and watch our access disappear.
https://www.mdc.govt.nz/news/2022/ro...-of-opawe-road

Love it!
Mine followed simmilar lines but was less articulate.

Here is a cut & paste from Google Earth that gives a better idea of where the existing road cuts up to attain the ridgeline.
An alternative to reach the upper paddock and rejoin the remaining road and current walking route (purple) could perhaps - judging from the apparent gradient looking from the other direction - follow the line of one of the existing farm tracks that have their point of access from further up Opawe road?

I live in Ashhurst (15 minutes from Opawe Road) so I've been following this with interest.

I ended up contacting the council because I had some questions after reading the Stuff article and the Manawatu Council website. The council were good to deal with.

The important thing is that the proposed easement will mean access will continue. I think the current landowner's motives seem pretty genuine in wanting to make the route clear and avoid people wandering over his property.

My only concern is whether an "easement in gross" has the same protections from being closed by subsequent landowners as a "paper road". I've googled it but can't get my head around it. Does anyone actually know how these things work? I'd like to know before I make a submission.

I have to say I've always found landowners around here pretty approachable. In the last month I've asked two farmers for permission to go across their land for fishing and they were both really friendly and had no problems with it. I've had a few refusals when it came to shooting/hunting but usually for a good reason but a lot of the time the farmers were pretty keen hunters themselves and were OK with it or suggested who else to ask.

Originally Posted by cbfb

I live in Ashhurst (15 minutes from Opawe Road) so I've been following this with interest.

I ended up contacting the council because I had some questions after reading the Stuff article and the Manawatu Council website. The council were good to deal with.

The important thing is that the proposed easement will mean access will continue. I think the current landowner's motives seem pretty genuine in wanting to make the route clear and avoid people wandering over his property.

My only concern is whether an "easement in gross" has the same protections from being closed by subsequent landowners as a "paper road". I've googled it but can't get my head around it. Does anyone actually know how these things work? I'd like to know before I make a submission.

I have to say I've always found landowners around here pretty approachable. In the last month I've asked two farmers for permission to go across their land for fishing and they were both really friendly and had no problems with it. I've had a few refusals when it came to shooting/hunting but usually for a good reason but a lot of the time the farmers were pretty keen hunters themselves and were OK with it or suggested who else to ask.

I havent submitted yet either but have a draft sketched out. Without knowing the exact terms of the proposed easement / right of way I am uncomfortable with the unformed road being stopped. I do however support the Council and landowner desire to 'tidy up' the current impractical legal road access. Two links that might help:https://www.linz.govt.nz/kb/520 https://www.gallawaycookallan.co.nz/...r-right-of-way
From the second link I can see that if a future landowner causes grief for hunters using the fenced easement by for example pugging it up with cattle or blocking it, the matter would end up in court - if the Council would pay, whereas a legal road has much greater protection and remedy

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

I havent submitted yet either but have a draft sketched out. Without knowing the exact terms of the proposed easement / right of way I am uncomfortable with the unformed road being stopped. I do however support the Council and landowner desire to 'tidy up' the current impractical legal road access. Two links that might help:https://www.linz.govt.nz/kb/520 https://www.gallawaycookallan.co.nz/...r-right-of-way
From the second link I can see that if a future landowner causes grief for hunters using the fenced easement by for example pugging it up with cattle or blocking it, the matter would end up in court - if the Council would pay, whereas a legal road has much greater protection and remedy

The thing that worries me is with the closure of the paper road, council are going through a consultation process which gives us some opportunity to object.

I'm not sure if a consultation would happen if a landowner wanted to close an easement.

It's the potential of the landowner and council being able to close it without public input that I'm not happy about.

I might give the guy I've been talking to at the council a call on Tuesday and see if he can answer that.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

I havent submitted yet either but have a draft sketched out. Without knowing the exact terms of the proposed easement / right of way I am uncomfortable with the unformed road being stopped. I do however support the Council and landowner desire to 'tidy up' the current impractical legal road access. Two links that might help:https://www.linz.govt.nz/kb/520 https://www.gallawaycookallan.co.nz/...r-right-of-way
From the second link I can see that if a future landowner causes grief for hunters using the fenced easement by for example pugging it up with cattle or blocking it, the matter would end up in court - if the Council would pay, whereas a legal road has much greater protection and remedy

By the way, if you (or anyone else) want a copy of the emails flick me your email address via PM and I'll forward them on. Am just sending a reply asking a few more questions.

People have only a few more hours to submit an objection to this potential removal of the current legal status for access to this part of the Ruahine Forest Park. Get writing.

If people need a few more ideas, feel free to look over my submission:

Road Stopping Proposal: Part of Opawe Road


I strongly object to the District Council proposal to Stop part of Opawe road.

I strongly object on the following grounds:

• In the council’s documentation on your web page headed up “ Road Stopping Proposal: Part of Opawe Road”, under the heading “ Background to road stopping” the sole reason given for this proposed action is that the adjoining land owner occupies this unformed legal road. This is the weakest excuse available for a District Council to undertake any legal action that reduces or restricts the public’s access to public land, that being the Unformed Legal Road itself and the Ruahine Forest park beyond.
• The District Councils’ own “Rural Area Vision Statement” identifies a Vision that “ offers outstanding recreational opportunities…” Any action that the district council takes to reduce, restrict or impede the publics access to recreational opportunities, by changing the legal status of the unformed legal road in question is in direct contradiction to your Rural Area Vision statement.
• The Unformed Legal Road in question: 1.2998ha adjoining or passing through Part Sections 9 and 10 Block XI Pohangina Survey District (RT WNB2/1185) shown as Section 1 on SO Plan 557632 (Part Opawe Road) has been in existence for at least one hundred years, if not longer. This legally defined public road has therefore been in existence, along its current alignment, and evidenced via cadastral information on any subsequent titles deposited with LINZ and its predecessors for any and all purchasers of any parcels of land that adjoin said boundaries of this unformed legal road and surrounding farmland.
It is therefore disingenuous of any previous or current land owner to proffer disruption to their farming practices as a reason to have this long standing unformed legal road Stopped. Previous and current land owners will have constructed rural dwellings and other farming infrastructure in close proximity to this unformed legal road in full awareness that this has always been a public piece of land with the legal standing of any formed legal roads, anywhere in NZ.
• As Public Servants, it is the responsibility of all District Council members to act in good faith, and to always act in the Publics’ best interests. Their (your) role is NOT to favour a small number of land owners at the expense of the Public’s RIGHT to access public land.

The only possible resolution

The only possible resolution that ensure the Publics’ rights of access to public land (this unformed legal road and the Ruahine Forest Park) is for the unformed legal road to be realigned to better suit both farming practices and the publics access to the unformed legal road. Fencing of the unformed legal road alignment would also be of benefit. However, the legal status of the unformed legal road MUST NOT BE DIMINISHED.
Changing the status of the unformed legal road to a Right of Way or some other such arrangement is tantamount to placing the land owner’s desires in front of the Public’s RIGHTS. Both current and the generations of walkers/trampers/hunters to come.


Long term user of the Ruahine Forest park
Beef Farmer
TAUPO

I plagiarised the shit out of XR500s "template" with a few additions.

and the sign off... "Another long-term user of the Ruahine Forest park and New Zealand, tax paying, Citizen. "

I was feeling all typy so i too plagiarized the shit out or mr XR500s template. Having had a horrible run in with a farmer i gotta say i don't give a shit about their want to keep the deer to themselves which is all this is really about (my 2c).

Flicked it to a few mates who seem to be online atm with a more brief abjection. hopefully a couple will type a few lines