Thread: 22LR Technique or Rifle Issue?

Both of these groups are 10 shots at 35m. Each ring is 1MOA. The targets were shot off a front rest and rear bag.

This one was shot squeezing the rear bag. The recoil lifted the reticle approximately 3MOA above the target each shot. And on one occasion up, and to the right, which is the shot by itself.


This one was shot resting my hand on the scope.The recoil lifted the reticle approximately 1MOA above the target.


Questions:
1. Is this normal for rimfires to react like this with a rear bag vs scope hold?
2. If the recoil impulse is driving the rifle directly up how are the shots able to hit low and left?
3. Is my technique bad while squeezing the bag?
4. Is there a mechanical issue (Nothing is loose)?

1. Yes. 2.You must hold the rifle in a consistent manner, both while sighting in and target shooting/hunting, to get the same result. Holding the scope will affect the barrel harmonics which determines where the muzzle is at the time the projectile leaves the muzzle. 3. No, see answer to 2.

Try holding the forend like your ancestors have done forever...and see how your groups look.

The scope hold group shows the rifle can group reasonably well.

The front rest / bag squeeze group shows variation of 6-8 moa which is not normal.

Id suggest trying a different front rest eg bipod or softer front bag.
Possibly the barrel is very close to the fore end somewhere and holding down on the scope makes contact more consistent.
Can you run a piece if card right back between barrel and wood ?
Another possibility is that a screw has bottomed out so feels tight but allows movement between shots. Could be either bedding or in the scope mounting.

I think there will be a single problem and when you stumble across it the gun will shoot really well.

Rimfire rifles are very susceptible to impact changes caused by different degrees of pressure on the stock. Your rifle should shoot Ok resting over bags, after all that's what the bench rest fraternity use.
However you must take care to be consistent with other points of contact, possible causes of your poor grouping can be variances in rifle butt to shoulder pressure, cheek to stock pressure and then hand to pistol grip which tends to have more variance and influence the higher the trigger weight is. In your first group, the fact that you noticed the differing recoil which resulted in the high right shot indicates there are some pressure variables on the stock. It is also important that when squeezing the rear bag that you are not subconsciously moving the rifle onto the aiming point, let the bag take to weight of the butt.

Originally Posted by Magnetite

Both of these groups are 10 shots at 35m. Each ring is 1MOA. The targets were shot off a front rest and rear bag.

This one was shot squeezing the rear bag. The recoil lifted the reticle approximately 3MOA above the target each shot. And on one occasion up, and to the right, which is the shot by itself.
Attachment 240272

This one was shot resting my hand on the scope.The recoil lifted the reticle approximately 1MOA above the target.
Attachment 240273

Questions:
1. Is this normal for rimfires to react like this with a rear bag vs scope hold?
2. If the recoil impulse is driving the rifle directly up how are the shots able to hit low and left?
3. Is my technique bad while squeezing the bag?
4. Is there a mechanical issue (Nothing is loose)?

now I could be wild of the mark here but I was always told shots shots like that first target i.e stringing out on an angle are a breathing issue - so could be breathing hold or both - get someone else to shoot it ( someone who can shoot ) and see how they do

It took me years (and I sold some rifles I thought wouldn't shoot but were in fact "hold sensitive) to get consistent with 22s off the bench/bipod.

Consistency of hold (and there are several styles of hold, they all work as you have found with your hand on top) and particularly "natural point of aim" were key for me in getting from "around 0.5" groups to under 0.3s on demand.

To stay around or under the magic 0.5" mark you also need top notch ammo, even $20 a box target ammo can have a "surprise" in every box.

I wouldn't think breathing movement would give such a large variation at 35m.
I'm wondering if you are resting the BARREL, rather than the stock, on the front rest? This would certainly cause issues, and you might not even realise your doing that.

What ammo are you using

I did some more shooting the other day got the following groups.

Scope hold:


Forend hold:


Bag hold:


So it looks like each method will shoot with similar precision. The bag hold appears to be the most sensitive to inconstancy of hold/pressure.
@Micky Duck when you use a forend hold do you pull the rifle down into the bags to load it, or should the grip be neutral and not affect the point of aim?
@Bagheera I can't even fit a piece of paper between the two.
@stickman I'm resting on the stock, not the barrel.
@blip the ammo is RWS Club.

Thanks for everyone's help.

you could try putting something temporary under the action to float the barrel and try it.

One recommended way of testing whether there are barrel contact problems is to put a pice of card under just the 2-3cm of battel by the tip of the fore end. The rest of the barrel should be floating then.

My old Ruger 10/22 only had one bedding screw so the tip had to be bedded.

Given that your groups are more circular now it might be w orth trying a known good brand of ammo. Eg CCI sub or HP are alternatives equivalent to RWS in most guns.

Keep doing 10 shot groups as youve only got a couple of flyers in each now.

Originally Posted by Magnetite

Both of these groups are 10 shots at 35m. Each ring is 1MOA. The targets were shot off a front rest and rear bag.

This one was shot squeezing the rear bag. The recoil lifted the reticle approximately 3MOA above the target each shot. And on one occasion up, and to the right, which is the shot by itself.
Attachment 240272

This one was shot resting my hand on the scope.The recoil lifted the reticle approximately 1MOA above the target.
Attachment 240273

Questions:
1. Is this normal for rimfires to react like this with a rear bag vs scope hold?
2. If the recoil impulse is driving the rifle directly up how are the shots able to hit low and left?
3. Is my technique bad while squeezing the bag?
4. Is there a mechanical issue (Nothing is loose)?

Not being an arse, but why would one hold the scope?

Just a firm hold with some rearward pressure.