Thread: 3 shot groups are useless!

I've always thought the best use of a 3 shot group in load development is to exclude a load.

3 shots into 15mm might grow as more rounds are fired, but a 40 or 50mm 3 shot group will never get smaller if you fire more rounds into it.

Originally Posted by Ross Nolan

I've always thought the best use of a 3 shot group in load development is to exclude a load.

3 shots into 15mm might grow as more rounds are fired, but a 40 or 50mm 3 shot group will never get smaller if you fire more rounds into it.

Nailed it. Anything else is kidding yourself, maybe not right now but that vital shot that didnt connect at 480M (or whatever) - than youll know!

man some of you guys seem to just like pulling the trigger not knocking that but many of us cant waste ammo like that - yes I love a good range session like many but I do it with much cheaper .22 - culling I would check zero on my .222 or .308 depending on the block we were going to first day and would not check again unless it seemed things were going wrong - goat blocks would check with head shots - deer blocks well cardboard box from the supplys and draw on a target and check zero - cant get my old head around you guys firing multiple shots why -- zeroing is simply - I can understand if you are going to be trying for deer 500-700 yards but for the average hunter at bush ranges a lot of what goes on here is quite frankly bloody confusing so for us bush hunters keep it simply long range buggers well I always say get closer and be sure

Checked my zero yesterday for a Tahr trip. It got me thinking. As I fired my first, and intended only shot, I felt my right elbow move just a fraction on the tarpaulin I was laying on. I said to my spotter that I thought the shot might go left and he confirmed it was a cm to left of center. I decided to fire another shot and sure enough this time it was on the line i expected. Both shots were at correct height. With that, I was done.

I asked myself how I could feel so confident with this thread in mind?

My thinking is this. pretty much I have used what is effectively one rifle, one calibre, one load almost exclusively for 30+ years. I bought a BRNO .270 at the age of 20. Before that Id used a Century arms mauser in .270 for a few years. I exclusively used a load of 53.5-54 gr of 2209 and a 130gr projectile in all that time. Velocity in the range of 3000-3100. My new rifle I choose very much because it was 270, and stock dimensions LOP barrel length etc were very close too the old BRNO. I adjusted the trigger to match my old rifle.
Basically I know that at 100 yards my shot should land 3 inch high of the bull within a bullet diameter or so of the centreline each time I shoot. Any variance from that and I start looking for a problem.
I think its about having enough confidence in the cartridge, load, rifle and scope combination. And confidence in my own abilities. Built up from experience, to know that if a bullet does not go where its meant too, then find out why. If it does go where its meant to, then all is ok.

yep you onto it Whanahuia - ya know when ya pulled one - a few years of small bore and full bore -one knew - especially with the old 303 no matter how worked on the trigger was - sliding always a problem if one has the wrong mat or worse grass - my elbow pads for full bore used to rub some resin into them made them sticky and no slide

Originally Posted by Tahr

Im inclined to agree. Most hunters just sight in with a few shots and then shoot a series of one shot groups at animals. Thats not to say that the theory in this thread isn't correct, and I fire a lot of bullets at paper myself. But as my mum used to say; "sometimes we can be too heavenly to be of any earthly use". Bless her.

Love it!

For those interested, this is a fantastic reference for understanding what matters, and when it matters in regards to assessing grouping potential:

https://precisionrifleblog.com/2020/...-for-shooters/

Originally Posted by Ross Nolan

I've always thought the best use of a 3 shot group in load development is to exclude a load.

3 shots into 15mm might grow as more rounds are fired, but a 40 or 50mm 3 shot group will never get smaller if you fire more rounds into it.

My exact application too.

Originally Posted by JT_NZ

For those interested, this is a fantastic reference for understanding what matters, and when it matters in regards to assessing grouping potential:

https://precisionrifleblog.com/2020/...-for-shooters/

Just finished reading. Excellent. Gonna build me a spreadsheet to calculate mean radius.

You guys are being a bit tough on 3 shot groups.

I can't complain about my 3 shot groups at 100 meters

Originally Posted by 7mm Rem Mag

I can't complain about my 3 shot groups at 100 meters

Attachment 250547

bout 2 to left and 2 up and hunting well thats what I would do good groups

Well today was a bit of a "hard day in the office" for several of the "three shot boys" and just about everyone else.

So we ran an open day at the range, rock up, fire a validation shot or group at 100M, then back to our 600Y mound, which is 571M to gongs. Wind was very light, a weather station about 1.3KM away showed 6-9 km/h coming over shooters right shoulder, often no wind at the firing point.

36 shooters turned up, with a fair range of rifles but quite a bit of "higher end stuff" in calibres from 6mm Dasher to 338Lap, a lot of PRC's, belted mags and the like in the list.

So how many shooters were able to put 3 consecutive shots on a 6" gong (they had multiple options of bigger ones to practise on, and no time pressure), I can tell you it wasn't very many but humor me with your guesses if you like. I just chatted with them (too many shooters turned up for me to have a go, we three RO's had our hands full managing) and guess what - 100 % of the guys I talked with were in the 3 shot crowd.

Originally Posted by Tentman

Well today was a bit of a "hard day in the office" for several of the "three shot boys" and just about everyone else.

So we ran an open day at the range, rock up, fire a validation shot or group at 100M, then back to our 600Y mound, which is 571M to gongs. Wind was very light, a weather station about 1.3KM away showed 6-9 km/h coming over shooters right shoulder, often no wind at the firing point.

36 shooters turned up, with a fair range of rifles but quite a bit of "higher end stuff" in calibres from 6mm Dasher to 338Lap, a lot of PRC's, belted mags and the like in the list.

So how many shooters were able to put 3 consecutive shots on a 6" gong (they had multiple options of bigger ones to practise on, and no time pressure), I can tell you it wasn't very many but humor me with your guesses if you like. I just chatted with them (too many shooters turned up for me to have a go, we three RO's had our hands full managing) and guess what - 100 % of the guys I talked with were in the 3 shot crowd.

That was because us 3 shot guys are a pretty relaxed bunch. The 5 plus shot guys would have all been too busy fussing over their gear and fiddling to chat.

A lot of hunters would save a lot of ammo if they stayed inside the 400yds range.They still gota walk to the deer.