Thread: An accuracy challenge

Originally Posted by leathel

very little wind, center first with a mag box length, Rifle was shooting high and right with the 162 amax and Munster Jnr was sighting his 308 in and need help hense the wrong target shot after being distracted in the first group...then top two which were at two different seating depths then the lower left, Lower left was with Retumbo as I am nearly out of 2225 so I will have to tweek the load a little by the looks but I will load the remander of what I have in 2225 to the top right setup as I know I pulled number five on that. I caught myself shutting my eyes while snatching the trigger on a couple of the later shots in the groups. More time needed on rifles like my 243AI as I have not shot much of late and that is a pleasure to shoot with the suppressor on and is just as accurate and the Rum that is loud but doesnt kick so between the two the flinch gets sorted pretty quick

I like the look of your groups, but my thoughts on the ones out to the left and right is more likely wind Do you use and wind flags when you are shooting? Any variation in wind will alter the impact point of a projectile. I've shot the rifle and others in conditions that don't move windflags much at all and ended up with groups 3 times the size of the ones I posted.
Before I started competition shooting I never used windflags and spent quite a bit of time trying to get small groups and find out why the good load I found last trip to the range didn't shoot as well this time.....very frustrating. After taking up competition shooting it finally dawned on me how much the wind affects a projectile, now I'd never go to the range without wind flags.............even a simple ribbon tied to a stick placed at 20 40 and 60 yds is better than nothing.........Kiwi

Originally Posted by Mike H

This was a .308 I used to own which I went mad and sold and regret! Typically shot inside half MOA and occasionally when I played my part would do this:

That's a nice group, but how did you measure it?? The only reason I ask is that the group is obviously just over 2 bullet widths from top to bottom.........Kiwi

Originally Posted by Kiwishooter

That's a nice group, but how did you measure it?? The only reason I ask is that the group is obviously just over 2 bullet widths from top to bottom.........Kiwi

Spotting

I've been intrigued by this thread since it first appeared 3 years ago.
So far, after 7000 views and 125 replies, 5 people have posted 5x5shot groups:
Gimp
Norway
Claw
Leathel (twice)
Kiwishooter (but on 5 different targets)

No doubt it's tedious to truly compare accuracy because you do have to shoot 5x5 with each variation of ammo / technique etc. Who would do it just to escape Gimp's wet fish ?

Yesterday, I had a few things to check and wanted to set myself a new benchmark now the gun has shot about 1500 rounds and I'm getting to know it.

This was at 100m and the grid is 1cm. All metric here. I calculated a MOA is 29mm at 100m (well got it from Wikipedia actually). You'll have to take my word for it they were all shot back to back with no omissions. I didn't have a big enough sheet of paper to fit 5 targets on.

Target 1


Target 2


Target 3


Target 4


Now I have to confess I only had enough rounds left to fire a 3 shot group to finish. ..

Target 5
200m


So, of course this isn't sub 0.1 mRad shooting. Ha Ha. Most of the 5 shot groups contained several sets of 3 that would go under MOA and several under 0.5 so 3 shots is not impressive.

Measurements


This is shooting with my hunting rifle, a Sako 85 with S&B PMII 3-12 and A-Tec CTM4 suppressor in 7mm08 with Norma brass, Fed 210, AR2208 and Nosler BT 140gr. The factory ammo is also Norma with 140gr BT.

In the end, I've checked that point of impact and grouping is similar using a sandbag at the bench or prone and with a bipod and with the sling looped over the barrel instead of a swivel on the stock. It also holds zero within the limits of my shooting and is stable over 50 shots without cleaning and with new brass or cases loaded 14 times. Factory ammo has not shot quite as well as my handloads on several comparison tests. With my standard hand load its close to "MOA" which doesn't sound that exciting but is good enough for the hunting and a bit of field target shooting.

Annealing your brass over those 14 firings?

No, I haven't at all.
Do yo think that would help ?
I'm thinking of sending them off to someone to get it done.

I've not got enough collected data to say for sure either way, but I noticed problems with my .243 cases approaching 10 firings per, fliers and erratic speeds etc, I think it would help, intending to anneal brass every couple of firings now - but I keep changing rifles and have 450 6.5x47 cases and 600 or so 6.5x55 cases so it hasn't come up yet

Here is a 3 shot group at 107y and a 10shot group at 217y
position had to be rebuilt for every shot as I had to use a cleaning rod to remove spent brass due to a rifle issue.

http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.n...munition-8640/

here is a seating test I did recently with my 20BR

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100m, 9*3 shot groups, nothing over 0.9" (if you ignore my pulled shot).

Might try a 5x5 next time at range

Just discovered this thread.

Here's the four five-shot groups I shot about 6 months ago with my son's FTR rifle which we'd just rebarrelled.
The groups were shot in "reverse order", ie bottom right first.
Shame I stuffed up the final shot on the top left one..

Interesting to note the POI shift between groups (nice small tidy groups show it up well)

Is this purely from changing position and hold slightly to switch targets or is there another reason do you think?

Originally Posted by Mauser308

Largely a lot of the rifles that people talk about that shoot xxx.xx" or xx mm, I suspect it's good luck more so than good management...

+100, hence the 5x5 - just a wee bit harder to get that right than the odd (lucky) super group

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

Interesting to note the POI shift between groups (nice small tidy groups show it up well)

Is this purely from changing position and hold slightly to switch targets or is there another reason do you think?

That's a good question- it's gotta be a hold/position thing as the scope wasn't adjusted. I do recall really fighting position as the tube I was shooting down didn't allow me to get a proper setup on the rear bag rider.

The grid is at most 1/2" so the change is very little.
Remember the load is different bottom and top

Originally Posted by ebf

+100, hence the 5x5 - just a wee bit harder to get that right than the odd (lucky) super group

But I shoot perfect 1 hole groups all day long

I don't know yet where you found the POI change. If you commenting about the Center diamond group you may observe that the diamond don't align with the top Center one, it is about 1/2" offset to the left.
In my opinion it is a very nice shooting with great reloading work.

Originally Posted by 6x47

Just discovered this thread.

Here's the four five-shot groups I shot about 6 months ago with my son's FTR rifle which we'd just rebarrelled.
The groups were shot in "reverse order", ie bottom right first.
Shame I stuffed up the final shot on the top left one..