Thread: B Cat Holder Wanted!!

Having a look back now, I originally interpreted it as wanting to learn to shoot properly and to the best of your ability rather than to simply pass a test.
There is a heap of info and help presented here in more than one form, but end of the day it's up to the individual to decide what they want to do and achieve.

I shot not bad for 2 yrs and 10k rd's... 5 mins of elbow work with someone that actually knew what they were doing instructor wise and my groups halved and speed almost doubled.


I personally scoff when someone mentions guns and military training..
Because you get to qualify a couple times a year and use a gun as part of your job ans wear camo and march around 350days a year or issue speeding tickets doesn't mean they have any actual skills or correct training
those involved usually have little to no actual skills and techniques that have been developed on the last 70+ odd yrs
Many procedures, postures and grips predate WW2.
I'm not going to try and justify my comments other than i have experienced it to a certain extent and if you WANT to shoot better and spend the time researching, reading and practicing and/or getting training from someone that has some idea, you will soon find out for yourself, the easy way of the hard way.

Originally Posted by Spanners

Having a look back now, I originally interpreted it as wanting to learn to shoot properly and to the best of your ability rather than to simply pass a test.
There is a heap of info and help presented here in more than one form, but end of the day it's up to the individual to decide what they want to do and achieve.

I shot not bad for 2 yrs and 10k rd's... 5 mins of elbow work with someone that actually knew what they were doing instructor wise and my groups halved and speed almost doubled.


I personally scoff when someone mentions guns and military training..
Because you get to qualify a couple times a year and use a gun as part of your job ans wear camo and march around 350days a year or issue speeding tickets doesn't mean they have any actual skills or correct training
those involved usually have little to no actual skills and techniques that have been developed on the last 70+ odd yrs
Many procedures, postures and grips predate WW2.
I'm not going to try and justify my comments other than i have experienced it to a certain extent and if you WANT to shoot better and spend the time researching, reading and practicing and/or getting training from someone that has some idea, you will soon find out for yourself, the easy way of the hard way.

You are obviously after a bite but if thats your honest opinion ref the military, your ignorance is truely astounding. :roll

PM sent Dougie

spanners, firearms training in a civilian competitive context and in a paramilitary context are two FUNDAMENTALY different things

And to make a generalised statement that small arms training in the military has not advanced significantly since WW2 (your words, 70 years) is pretty astounding.

I've personally had the benefit of both types of training, chalk and cheese mate

When the Army adopted the P226 in 92' I was sent on the original fam cse. It was run by the top shot and weapons instructor from SiG. Sweedish fella. He was ex-military, but what the fuck would he know.

Originally Posted by Tussock

Every territorial soldier who did his basic training will tell you he is the elite of the elite, the sharp end of the best fighting force the world has ever known blah blah blah. Really military training is not the best way to do anything. Its a way that most people can get right, most of the time, and a way that a bunch of guys that can't find their shoe laces most of the time let alone tie them can be made moderately effective.

Some people come out of the military knowing all kinds of stuff. They are lost in the mire of the thousands of people grossly exaggerating their effectiveness.

Before you all have a cry, I have spent plenty of time in the bush with ex-army guys. They are like a perfect cog in an awesome machine, trained extremely well to do the job of that cog. And what can a cog do if you take it out of the machine? Not much.

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. I will believe the "military elite" line when I see it. Yet to see it.

The Military would do it self proud having you and spanners giving the final stamp of approval on potential recruits so they can only hope to aspire to your level of..........Legen............wait for it.................dary.

You should be given honourary Wings and Dager embloms and have your portraits in all unit headquarters

And we're off again

In the same way that there is a fundamental difference between civilian competitive training and paramilitary training, there is also a world off difference between firearms training for basic army units vs specialised units.

And Tussock, PLEASE READ THIS SLOWLY : different, not one is better or worse..., you are the guy who is making this a "military training sucks" debate.

In exactly the same way that I detest the typical wannabe TF weekender claiming to be the second coming of some elite force having someone who has sweet blow-all military training or experience spout off about how pathetic it supposedly is, is not a lot better in my book

Originally Posted by Tussock

Every territorial soldier who did his basic training will tell you he is the elite of the elite, the sharp end of the best fighting force the world has ever known blah blah blah. Really military training is not the best way to do anything. Its a way that most people can get right, most of the time, and a way that a bunch of guys that can't find their shoe laces most of the time let alone tie them can be made moderately effective.

Some people come out of the military knowing all kinds of stuff. They are lost in the mire of the thousands of people grossly exaggerating their effectiveness.

Before you all have a cry, I have spent plenty of time in the bush with ex-army guys. They are like a perfect cog in an awesome machine, trained extremely well to do the job of that cog. And what can a cog do if you take it out of the machine? Not much.

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. I will believe the "military elite" line when I see it. Yet to see it.

Go fuck you're self

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Neckers, not really sure that is the solution...

What if he manages to impregnate himself ? You'd get a super distilled tussock mini-me, imagine trying to have a debate with that

Originally Posted by ebf

Neckers, not really sure that is the solution...

What if he manages to impregnate himself ? You'd get a super distilled tussock mini-me, imagine trying to have a debate with that

I'm just taking the piss I'm to retarded to be on this forum.
:what::eek::screwy::sly::confused:

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Originally Posted by Tussock

Why are you mad at me? Should not you be mad at the guy who told us he got his broken nose "training hand to hand combat with the SAS" but actually got it from a nerdy kid from Uni who weighed 40kg less than him? Or the guys who turned up in full webbing and talked for hours about their training, then got blisters and had to sit in the van? Or the guy who was "special forces" and only lasted 4 hours in camp (that is a actual record). Or the guy with 20 years in the army built a million dollar camp in a wadi in the dry season? One guy was pretty clever but he still wrote evac procedures which nearly got me killed.

Like I said. All the good ones lost in the mire of the shit talkers. Its not my fault if all the stuff I have heard has never ended up matching up with what I have seen. So yeah, talk up the army shit to your hearts content. But you might want to do something about the tall tales.

You're just as big a shit stirrer as us common people tussock and your a moderator,of your so high and mighty why don't you set a good example.that's what clever cunts do


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Originally Posted by Tussock

Why are you mad at me? Should not you be mad at the guy who told us he got his broken nose "training hand to hand combat with the SAS" but actually got it from a nerdy kid from Uni who weighed 40kg less than him? Or the guys who turned up in full webbing and talked for hours about their training, then got blisters and had to sit in the van? Or the guy who was "special forces" and only lasted 4 hours in camp (that is a actual record). Or the guy with 20 years in the army built a million dollar camp in a wadi in the dry season? One guy was pretty clever but he still wrote evac procedures which nearly got me killed.

Like I said. All the good ones lost in the mire of the shit talkers. Its not my fault if all the stuff I have heard has never ended up matching up with what I have seen. So yeah, talk up the army shit to your hearts content. But you might want to do something about the tall tales.

Not mad at you all Tim, just amused tbh. You know I think well of you and would happily share a beer or a camp with you anytime. I just disagree with you in this instance. However, I agree, there is a lot of weekend warriors out there. But I am sure you will agree and would be able to filter out the weirdo's when the credibility is just in their demeanor not their words.

Originally Posted by Dougie

Look! I had the last word.

Word.

You'd hope. But no

Originally Posted by R93

You are obviously after a bite but if thats your honest opinion ref the military, your ignorance is truely astounding. :roll

It wasn't for a bite.
There is a big difference to studying for a test and learning the content , rather than being given the answers the day before hand.

So basically if you have anything to do with the armed forces you are automatically a pro right??
This is the attitude I disagree with.
So many times we have army both current and past and police turn up to shoot with the attitude 'I'm in the army or police - I know what I'm doing' and proceed to grip the pistol like its their 1st time picking it up and generally shoot like shit. 'This is the way we are taught'
Doesn't mean its right or current and can't be improved but you hit a brick wall that goes up 'I'm in the armed forces, therefore I know'
The taught grip is 100yrs old.. For a gun 100yrs old that was out of date before WW2

If you can't seem room to improve and want to maintain the army or police knows best mentality then whatever floats your boat

Originally Posted by ebf

spanners, firearms training in a civilian competitive context and in a paramilitary context are two FUNDAMENTALY different things

And to make a generalised statement that small arms training in the military has not advanced significantly since WW2 (your words, 70 years) is pretty astounding.

I've personally had the benefit of both types of training, chalk and cheese mate

Fundamentally different ?? The fundamentals of grip, stance and sight picture should not change

If you're into history or old military firearms etc have a look at the publications over the years and wars. Less the over the top bayonet march they are damn near the same from ww1 to Vietnam. Even looks like the drawings were done by the same fella
Some really neat old stuff