Thread: Battle over banning noise complaints against military gun range goes to court

Originally Posted by tac a1

I dont see that the army has the right to place a covenant on properties which they do not own. They should either purchase said properties, or lodge a caveat with the council that any persons purchasing the properties in the future must be made aware that there is likely to be noise, and that the range is not moving anywhere. If you don't like the noise, don't purchase this property.

Be great if you were deaf!!!

I don't think that is a goer either as it amounts to the same thing.

No, because it doesn't interfere with the land rights of the current owners. All it is, is a notification in essence.

Found some detail. Only new subdivisions are included but the Council has canned it anyway. I may pop its head up ant the next District Plan Review whenever that is. It appears that earlier the Army has been a little less than a good neighbour in regard to the noise so this may have left a sour taste with the locals. Seems to be working OK at the moment so why try and fix it. It looks as though most of the subdivision has already happened.

Originally Posted by Localman

It's not what it seems. The army want to put a covernet on properties with 2 km of the range that we can't complain about the noise. The locals which I am one are happy with the states quo. It is the army been heavy handed telling the council what it wants. A covernet would devalue properties and the army could charge what they get up to and are been less than open about things.
Yet the the army are complaining about noise that might come from a quarry near Burnham camp.

heaven prevent property values going down. The net net of it is the NZDF were there first and need to shoot. This is on the same level of moving next to the powerstation/king's arms or the airport and complaining about the noise

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings,
For a long time the NZ Government, including the Army just built things without any input from Local Government. Most of the ranges built at the time would have had no consents for either buildings or planning. The right time to put a covenant on the titles for the subdivisions would have been when the land was subdivided. Someone dropped the ball, likely the Army.
GPM.

Yes they did build things without requiring input from local councils, it was called the Public Works Act.
This Act was not repealed until 1992, so anything built before this did not require consents, easements, or legal titles.
(most Power Board assets were constructed under the same Act).

BB

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Found some detail. Only new subdivisions are included but the Council has canned it anyway. I may pop its head up ant the next District Plan Review whenever that is. It appears that earlier the Army has been a little less than a good neighbour in regard to the noise so this may have left a sour taste with the locals. Seems to be working OK at the moment so why try and fix it. It looks as though most of the subdivision has already happened.

The Army (West Melton range) has been there since 1942. Everyone else are Johnny come lately's. Especially the encroaching subdivisions. The council will have been rubbing their hands with glee at all the impending rates and reserve contributions the subdivision will have made them.

And from having been on the inside, I can vouch that the NZDF moves at the pace of a very rotund glacier when it comes to being proactive in such matters.

Originally Posted by Basenjiboy

Yes they did build things without requiring input from local councils, it was called the Public Works Act.
This Act was not repealed until 1992, so anything built before this did not require consents, easements, or legal titles.
(most Power Board assets were constructed under the same Act).

BB

Most big things should have had "designations" placed on them by the TLAs at the time District Plans were reviewed. Im far from a planning expert but a Designation covers off a lot of matters including noise. Airports etc spring to mind.

Originally Posted by XR500

This will probably go right over the complainants heads, but do they see the significance of the situation, in that they are submitting their complaints in the English language, not German or Japanese. Should our Defence Force, and others we stood alongside some 70-80 years ago have failed in their mission, that indeed would be the language their complaints would be being submitted in.

I would have thought that recent global events would be placing these sorts of issues front and centre to most people, but Kiwis as a people can be pretty lackadaisical in such matters.

Anywho, don't take this as my approval that our current Defence Force is in any shape whatsoever for participating in the protection of NZ interests. That ship sailed quite a long time ago.

Defence Forces make noise. Sometimes lots of it. It comes with the territory.

Enlighten them about the noise in Gaza.

I made a lot of noise on that range in 1972 and over the first five months of 73. Our Army may no longer be what it once was but nonetheless we need it and it needs to use firearms to make soldiers proficient. My assessment is that we are headed into trying perhaps volatile times over the next few years and our servicemen and women will probably be called upon again to put their lives on the line for all of us. I for one would have them well trained and if that means the Army changes the way it makes use of the West Melton range then more power to its right arm and to hell with what the neighbours think.

Originally Posted by Russian 22.

heaven prevent property values going down. The net net of it is the NZDF were there first and need to shoot. This is on the same level of moving next to the powerstation/king's arms or the airport and complaining about the noise

The locals are not complaining about the noise, in fact the machine guns were firing away today, back ground noise. It's what they are not telling us that is more of a concern. Soon as they change things who knows what they might want to get up to. As said people are happy the way they operate at the moment but if they suddenly started operating 24/7 that would upset everyone.

I see two sides to this and can see why locasl are concerned about a change in the status quo. But I also see the flip sode of the coin. How many speedway clubs / raceways and cart clubs have set up out in the bondocks to be good neighbours and make noise far away from neighbours then have had to shut down because someone bought the noisy land cheap and developed it then decided the noise was bad for values and complained until said club was shut down or restricted?

Sound familiar...Its why Taylor swift did not perform at western springs.....(She couldnt get two shows / nights as that would put the stadiun over the number of noisy nights they are allowed in a year and one show was uneconomical)

How many people have you heard of that buy cheap properties near an airport then want the airport moved because the noise is driving values down....? I know one situation where someone bought a house next to a local dive pub cos it was a bargain then bitched and moaned until said pub was forced to close because the got annoyed with drunks late at night....Thats why it was cheap to start with....

Perhaps this is one of the few areas where the range can operate now and that they cannot move, thus need to protect what they have from being pushed out by people who buy cheap then complain about the existing neighbour lowering values when that is why they got it in the first place......

Perhaps the Amry HQ could have approached it in a better way, perhaps they could have discussed the effects of a covenant. As for the covenant lowering the value of the land argument....That is a load of .....The covenant is a notification of the noise and a statement that the buyer is aware they are getting a place near to a noisy area. If this devalues the land then it is only because the seller has not pointed that fact out already in order to get a higher price. IF the owner is not looking to sell then the lower value means a lower rates bill so there is an up side....

But @Localman I also understand your concerns about them getting the change then raising the amount of noise by making changes either in frequency or volume. And that would be unfair. Like all good media stories, they only ever publish half the facts and to give the reporter some credit, it is unlikely in my mind that either party gave 100% of the facts and presented what gave it the best light to their side....

I thiink in this case the court is where it should be sorted where both sides can present their arguments and reasons and it can be sorted out. I think the courts are better equiped to deal with the discussion than the media ever will be...

Originally Posted by Localman

The locals are not complaining about the noise, in fact the machine guns were firing away today, back ground noise. It's what they are not telling us that is more of a concern. Soon as they change things who knows what they might want to get up to. As said people are happy the way they operate at the moment but if they suddenly started operating 24/7 that would upset everyone.

And that is it in a nutshell. The District Plan Review should sort things out.
GPM.

I would suggest that if the NZDF started using the West Melton Range 24/7, then we would all have slightly more to worry about than a bit of noise.

Originally Posted by XR500

I would suggest that if the NZDF started using the West Melton Range 24/7, then we would all have slightly more to worry about than a bit of noise.

To quote an old friend now deceased, “I reckon I have one good one left in me”. We are all the poorer for your passing Graeme.

Originally Posted by Localman

The locals are not complaining about the noise, in fact the machine guns were firing away today, back ground noise. It's what they are not telling us that is more of a concern. Soon as they change things who knows what they might want to get up to. As said people are happy the way they operate at the moment but if they suddenly started operating 24/7 that would upset everyone.

Also a local, just outside the 2km radius. Dont care about the machine gun noise and also enjoy seeing the military activity in the area between the RIFLE range and camp in Rolleston, it was here before we purchased land and built.

BUT, the bigger picture is the fact the army is loosing too many staff due to families not wanting to do their time in the desert, so Rolleston is being turned into home base, which will see a whole lot more activity in the Selwyn district. If the army just came out and applied for Resource Consent for what they really want, the whole town of West Melton would be up in arms, so they are doing the slippery slope; 2km zone, then it will be artillery etc etc.

(The locals are pretty battle ready; quarries & chicken farms have been defeated so far)