Thread: Better vetting of police needed?

Snapped ?? Nothing can condone what he has done however understanding why might help another person and save lives.

I worked with Ben for several years (at least 5, 2 on an everyday same room basis) and a nicer person you wouldn't meet. I was really pleased when he joined the police as they need people with a bit of compassion and good humour, and Ben had shitloads of both. As far as I could tell he never showed any signs of being unwell psychologically when I worked with him.

This and the other thread have two very important messages. The first one has already been mentioned, we need to look after each other, and the second is that anyone can become mentally unwell at any time, just as one can have an accident or develop some medical condition.

Saying "I'm right" "I'm tough" "It won't happen to me" won't protect you from any illness, be it physological or psychological (Thanks to Kotuku on the other thread for pointing this out - it had never really registered with me till now).

As firearms owners I'm starting to think that a big part of our responsibility is to make sure we are proactive in "caring" for other firearms owners we know, and ensuring we take all possible steps to ensure they don't harm themselves or anyone else with their firearms.

When was the last time you checked up on someone you acted as a referee for their firearms licence . . . If you thought you knew them well enough to say they should have a licence do you care enough to have a regular quiet word to make sure they are OK, do you reach out to them if they have shit going on . . .

Originally Posted by northdude

how about everyone that wants to sit there and bag the police for what they do go join up and show us how it should be done

You pick your career, I dont want to be a policeman, dealing with low life all the time, but hey some people dont like being a rep or managing people either. The choice is yours, I think they do a great job, with all the restraints and piss poor judgement of some judges, they are not forced to do the job and therefore, because of their position and power, I believe they should be the best people with the best training and management.
I dont think they quite meet my expectations, probably an internal culture the police have developed. But as I say, dealing with scum everyday, wouldnt help your outlook on life!!
I know an ex detective who solved some major murder cases in NZ and today he hates the way the police is, never says a good word about them.

Yea fair enough don't know what trade your in but we get this a lot in ours there's always someone that's not even in the same trade that knows how to do my job better funny thing is after they've given me a full run down I hand them my own tools and ask them to demonstrate what they are talking about guess what happens next

Originally Posted by Maca49

You pick your career, I dont want to be a policeman, dealing with low life all the time, but hey some people dont like being a rep or managing people either. The choice is yours, I think they do a great job, with all the restraints and piss poor judgement of some judges, they are not forced to do the job and therefore, because of their position and power, I believe they should be the best people with the best training and management.
I dont think they quite meet my expectations, probably an internal culture the police have developed. But as I say, dealing with scum everyday, wouldnt help your outlook on life!!
I know an ex detective who solved some major murder cases in NZ and today he hates the way the police is, never says a good word about them.

I have personally had (in the 90's a serving policeman tell me at the range one day "everybody's a criminal but we just have not caught everybody yet"
and........................ my wife was told at a function one night that "I wouldn't have minded pulling you over on the top of the Wangamoas one dark night" by another off duty officer, when you add all the other indiscretions is it any wonder their credibility is a wee bit low. I mean here's another one and they just seem to be never ending
Northland police officer faces criminal investigation into alleged sex abuse | Stuff.co.nz

Sure its a difficult job but no one make them do it, and given the responsibility they should hold themselves to a higher account / standard than the rest of us surely, is that too much to ask

Its a nice thought...

But actually all you get is a stab in the dark. Human Resources and people managment is just a gamble. The best recruiters only have a 33-50% success rate. Psychological and psychemetric testing is not predictive of future performance.

Sure you can pick out the glaring and obvious, but most people moderate that in the process.

What we get is a reflection of society, not a better part of it. When you add power to that group you will always have additional issues. The only solution is to improve accountabilty.

The everyone's a criminal comment I had heard often in my time. What it also says of course is that that includes the person saying it.

Originally Posted by Pointer

This thread has been positive for me. I've got a friend who is depressed at the moment, and another going through an ugly divorce. I'm gunna give them both a call tonight. We're all stronger together. Maybe if we all just reached out to that mate before they snapped, then three kids down south wouldn't be growing up without a mother and a father. Stay safe everyone and look out for your mates

Good on you Jim , too many blokes suffer in silence. Because it's not the bloke thing to do . I've seen this a few times recently & have done simular . Catch up for a quiet beer ,coffee and a chat . I'm shit house at reading people but it's not hard to put 1+1 together . The relationship break up seems to really rock the middle aged blokes that I know . The financial pressure seems to pay a higher part . Ie working there arse off ,getting freehold. Then they have to face a 250 thousand mortgage etc . P Woman have a big network of girlfriends that chat ninety to the dozen ,I'm sure that's why they cope .

Originally Posted by Pointer

This thread has been positive for me. I've got a friend who is depressed at the moment, and another going through an ugly divorce. I'm gunna give them both a call tonight. We're all stronger together. Maybe if we all just reached out to that mate before they snapped, then three kids down south wouldn't be growing up without a mother and a father. Stay safe everyone and look out for your mates

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Originally Posted by mikee

I have personally had (in the 90's a serving policeman tell me at the range one day "everybody's a criminal but we just have not caught everybody yet"
and........................ my wife was told at a function one night that "I wouldn't have minded pulling you over on the top of the Wangamoas one dark night" by another off duty officer, when you add all the other indiscretions is it any wonder their credibility is a wee bit low. I mean here's another one and they just seem to be never ending
Northland police officer faces criminal investigation into alleged sex abuse | Stuff.co.nz

Sure its a difficult job but no one make them do it, and given the responsibility they should hold themselves to a higher account / standard than the rest of us surely, is that too much to ask

Mikee you and I are the only honest ones left! and Ive got my doubts about you!!

We'll see how it goes Munsey. Its just a phone call or two and I may never know the repercussions of it but who knows, it may help. The flip side is that one day, I'm gunna need a hand up. We all will at some stage.

I think some people here are dehumanizing him because of his profession. Take away his uniform for a second - he is one of us, human. Perfectly imperfect, with all the little flaws and vulnerabilities that make us unique. Take away his uniform and put your brother, a friend, or uncle in his place. A man whose wife and mother of his children recently left him for a close friend. What he has done is horrendous, no excuses there, but he will have to answer for that in time. Put your distrust of his profession aside for a moment, and spare some compassion for his young family. And for all of our sakes, if you know another Ben, reach out.

Originally Posted by northdude

Yea fair enough don't know what trade your in but we get this a lot in ours there's always someone that's not even in the same trade that knows how to do my job better funny thing is after they've given me a full run down I hand them my own tools and ask them to demonstrate what they are talking about guess what happens next

And here she is!

Originally Posted by Pointer

This thread has been positive for me. I've got a friend who is depressed at the moment, and another going through an ugly divorce. I'm gunna give them both a call tonight. We're all stronger together. Maybe if we all just reached out to that mate before they snapped, then three kids down south wouldn't be growing up without a mother and a father. Stay safe everyone and look out for your mates

Very sad situation when anyone takes a life and ruins their own and their family's.

Probably the best point to come form this thread I think quoted above. I am currently one of "those" guys wearing blue. The amount of people that fight with depression, real depression, is SCARY and the public only see the tip of the ice berg. In my current role I deal with maybe 15-20 people in custody each shift. If I have one or two each shift that are NOT medicated for Depression, Schizophrenia or some sort of Psychotic issue I am surprised.

The amount of times I have seen "hard c&#ts in tears and broken, well I have lost count its daily.

The amount of people I have personally cut down from hanging or found dead from self inflicted death also I have lost count - its almost daily in my region.

The common denominator that I see is not that they are bad people but they don't have support or a good shoulder to lean on, just things that seem small but are huge to them in their time of need.

And we closed institutions they were inhumane, moved them into the community and made the police responsible. Buggered if I know! I had first hand experience with my fathers second wife, it was just sad for everybody.

The fact he is a cop means nothing, no different than any other professional person be it fire service, Military, Medical. Everyone is human when they go home at the end of the day and take off the uniform. We have no idea why people snap, everyone has the potential to flip out, some can control it others cant. Or perhaps most people haven't been pushed to the point where rational thinking disappears. Mental health cannot be seen from the outside.

Originally Posted by Pointer

And for all of our sakes, if you know another Ben, reach out.

I'm Ben, reach out and give me a beer

In seriousness though, some very good points being made here about mental health and the importance of supporting each other when things are tough.

There is plenty to read online on this subject if one is inclined to do so but I will post just this link.

Are murderers born or made? - BBC News

Ok some people may just snap but many are actually predisposed to violent offending because of there genetic makeup and it is triggered by life experiences.
There are many studys into this "warrior gene" or "murderer gene".

Originally Posted by Tahr

Google this: psychological vetting of police in nz

Got the time to do this just now and got information on the polices vetting service and applications to be a Psychologist but no information on what vetting police themselves undergo or how often they are revetteted so if you could link me that information it would be appreciated.