Thread: Call to Arms

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Originally Posted by FOUNZ

It looks like another A Cat Semi Auto has been added to the E Cat import list.

A dealer has been in touch with us about the new police policy that we highlighted in Saturdays post. This time the dealer was told he cant bring in A Cat, AK type firearms.

His AO informed him “Dealers can not stock a semi-auto that has potential to be converted to E”

This policy could be applied to all semi autos! Ruger 10/22’s, Berretta shotguns, you name it.

Are the police reclassifying all semi autos Paula Bennett? Just to remind you, the gun owning public slammed Chris Cahill over his attitude towards sportspeople who owned semi autos. Yet here we are with the police going ahead with a disruptive policy to prevent legitimate A cat sporting firearms into the country.

FOUNZ is unaware of any facility in the legislation that allows police to reclassify semi autos as E Cat except to go through the Order in Council process.

I am applying for permits. See how I get on.

Originally Posted by Beavis

I am applying for permits. See how I get on.

And then this... The plot thickens:

FYI - Sent from AC Rusbatch today

Dear FCAF members,

You may have seen some social media commentary made over the weekend by FOUNZ members relating to the classification of MSSAs.

However, I can advise that this commentary is incorrect – Police has not changed its policy or approach regarding the classification of MSSAs.

In response, we will be providing the information below to the firearms community on our website and through other appropriate channels.

We would be grateful if you could please circulate this to your members.

Thank you


Mike Rusbatch
Assistant Commissioner: Response and Operations
Police National Headquarters | 180 Molesworth Street | PO Box 3017 | Wellington 6140 |
cid:image001.png@01D09399.1F756110

Police approach to MSSA classification remains unchanged

In response to recent information being circulated within the firearms community regarding the classification of A-category firearms – and in particular AR15 type semi-automatic firearms – Police confirms that the classification and rules regarding the importation of these weapons has not changed.

Specifically:

• People can still continue to apply to import A-category firearms as they always have – no special reasons are required. This classification and its interpretation by Police has not changed, despite what has been circulated through social media.

• 28,000 A-category firearms were imported into New Zealand in 2016 and these will continue to be imported in 2017 under the same classification rules.

• There has been no re-classification of AR15 type semi-automatic weapons nor has Police made any proposal – an individual or a dealer can still continue to apply to import these weapons. These continue to be treated as an either an A-category or an E-category firearm depending on the individual specifications of the firearm.

• The Arms Act has always required importer to obtain a permit to bring in “parts” of firearms to New Zealand and a special reason is required to import MSSA parts. To deliver on the intent of the Act Police needs to consider whether the application relates to a part of a MSSA or part of an A category firearm. Where it is possible that the part could be either for an A category or an E category firearm Police is required to seek further clarification about the intended use of the part.

• Police cannot change the classification of firearms by making an Order-in-Council. Any such proposal would need to be approved by Cabinet and be signed by the Governor-General

• Police continues to administer the Arms Act and remains committed to working with the firearms community to promote the safe use and management of firearms. Anyone with questions regarding Police’s approach to firearms licensing or management is encouraged to contact us directly or through the Firearms Community Advisory Forum.

• Police’s first priority remains the safe, secure and lawful use of firearms and effective administration of the Arms Act as part of our commitment to safer communities together.

Year keep us posted thanks Beavis.

But either way you look at this it's not good, if this is what they are doing!

Just goes to show they DO have a hidden agenda and they are now using it

Seems they have "Administration" confused with "Discrimination" - if the above statement is completely factual, we could all be excused for not believing it until the actions of the Police match their words...

That sounds a lot like the response to the updated arms code, it was all of several minutes before the hard copies that haddnt been printed were being shown on here.... emails off to Gerry and Paula

Originally Posted by Nickoli

Seems they have "Administration" confused with "Discrimination" - if the above statement is completely factual, we could all be excused for not believing it until the actions of the Police match their words...

Surely it would make more sense not to believe all the hysterical shit posted about police reclassifying all AR15s without some proof other than what someone posted on Facebook?

Originally Posted by systolic

Surely it would make more sense not to believe all the hysterical shit posted about police reclassifying all AR15s without some proof other than what someone posted on Facebook?

I tend to believe the dealers (whose livelihood depends on their dealing in firearms) that were approached by police and told this very thing:

Originally Posted by NZAR15.com Facebook page

Fuck where do I start.

As a business I rely on a positive relationship with Police HQ. They administer the Arms Act. They control my business.

I have witnessed a lot of bullshit over the last 18 months from Police HQ. Implementation of policies that do everthing to hinder law abiding firearm owners. You will have seen a few of the antics published on FOUNZ. However I have ALWAYS played their game so that I could stay in business. I have gone beyond what I think any other dealer would do, to be seen as nothing but an honest and upstanding dealer.
For example twice this year I have had parts that have come through customs that I didn't order. I asked the AO to come around and take them away for destruction. This was thousands of dollars worth of gear.
So on Saturday why would I bite the hand that feeds me. Why would I take my version of events to FOUNZ?
On Friday I was told by my AO that he could no longer issue import permits for A Category AR15s and A Cat AR15 receivers. That instead I need to apply for these as E Cat and provide a business case to convert them to A Cat on landing in NZ. Thinking of my business and my lively hood with alarm bells going off, I feebly agreed. In the meantime I rang the lawyer for advice. His recommendation was no don't do it. I quickly got back in touch with the Arms Officer and said no. I want these as A Cat only. He then resubmitted my permits as A Cat. I also told him I wanted a confirmation by the end of the day how they were going to treat my application.
At the close of business I was told "Sorry but there will be no decision today - will keep you updated"
A sleepless night later I decided that this needed to go public.

I'm over this shit from Police HQ. Ive had enough. Please read between the lines of anything they publish.

https://www.facebook.com/nzar15

So, the above combined with police's recent track record of releasing hard copies of their policy changes (at significant tax payer expense) and then suddenly performing an about turn on those policies, with the lamest excuse imaginable, their fabricated campaign with their media allies about the firearm crime "problem"... It's another in a series of events that does not cast their integrity in a positive light.

Or, if giving them the benefit of the doubt - it at perhaps shows the arms officer and POLHQ are not communicating effectively.

Originally Posted by systolic

Surely it would make more sense not to believe all the hysterical shit posted about police reclassifying all AR15s without some proof other than what someone posted on Facebook?

Re-read the post Trollboy: anything could be true with the current administration. I'm not ever going to believe everything I see on Faecesbook, nor am I going to take anything a Troll says seriously either.... especially when they chose to start a sentence with "surely"

Originally Posted by systolic

Surely it would make more sense not to believe all the hysterical shit posted about police reclassifying all AR15s without some proof other than what someone posted on Facebook?

I dunno, I'd believe Ken over any AO these days, no problem, they're a pack of lying conniving cunts. Now, some random troll (#1003309) on the internet?

At the moment I am more likely to believe Farcebook than PHQ. Sad aye...

Ministers response:

Hon Paula Bennett
Minister of Police
14 June 2017
Media Statement
Government response to firearms select committee report
Police Minister Paula Bennett has today responded to the Law and Order Select Committee report on issues relating to the illegal possession of firearms.
The Select Committee’s terms of reference were to focus on how widespread firearms possession is amongst criminals – including gangs, how those people who don’t have a firearms licence come into possession of firearms and what changes, if any, would restrict the flow of firearms to criminals, gangs and people who don’t hold a licence.
“The committee made 20 recommendations. After careful consideration I’ve accepted seven, rejected 12, and recommended one proceed with changes,” Mrs Bennett says.
“We needed to strike the right balance between public safety and the rights of legal firearms owners. Although the report was well intended, I believe many of the recommendations would not decrease the flow of firearms to criminals and gangs but would unduly impact on legally licenced firearms users.
“I appointed two independent firearms experts to advise me. I’ve listened to their advice, advice from Police, read the recommendations from the select committee and I’ve taken on board feedback from the public.
“After careful consideration I have added two more recommendations to my response. One proposes the introduction of the power to suspend licences pending decision on revocation. This will give Police an alternative to cancelling a licence, for example in situations where someone has been charged with family violence, or where there are security issues that need to be resolved.
“I’m also proposing a Ministerial direction to the Police to require consultation with the firearms community when considering changes to the Arms Act and the interpretation of it.
“Nobody wants firearms getting into the hands of violent gang members but we also don’t want over the top rules and restrictions to be placed on hunters and shooters who manage their firearms responsibly.”
“My response to the report has been tabled in Parliament. We will now begin a policy process around the recommendations we are progressing which will involve consultation, looking at costs and any regulatory impacts before coming back to Cabinet for approval later this year,” Mrs Bennett says.
Summary of the Government Response
Recommendation Number
Summarised Recommendation
Government Response Summarised
Sale and supply of firearms and ammunition
1
A firearms licence required to possess ammunition
Reject
2
A dealer’s licence required to sell ammunition
Reject
3
Dealers required to keep records of ammunition sales
Reject
4
Registration process for websites facilitating trading in firearms, parts, or ammunition
Amend recommendation - Do not introduce registration but clarify ‘mail order’ process applies to online sales in Arms Amendment Bill
5
Permit to procure extended to cover all sales or transfers of firearms (i.e. include A category firearms)
Reject - but improve efficiency in current licensing and permitting processes.
Definition of military-style semi-automatics
6
Investigate the creation of a category of restricted semi-automatic rifle and shotgun
Reject
Effectiveness of licensing, training, and registering firearms
7
Implement firearm prohibition orders
Accept - include in the Arms (Firearm Prohibition Orders and Firearms Licences) Amendment Bill
8
Codify the ‘fit and proper’ criteria in the Arms Act
Reject
9
Implement a stand-down period after licence revocation
Accept - include a 12 month stand -own period in the Arms (Firearm Prohibition Orders and Firearms Licences) Amendment Bill
10
Clarify that gang members or prospects must not be considered ‘fit and proper’ to possess firearms
Accept - include in the Arms (Firearm Prohibition Orders and Firearms Licences) Amendment Bill
11
Require Police to record serial numbers of all firearms upon renewal of licence or inspection of premises
Reject – voluntary process to continue
Criminal offending with firearms
12
Review the penalties in the Arms Act
Accept - progress in Arms Amendment Bill
13
Treat dealer offending as aggravated at sentencing
Reject
14
Determine appropriate security standards for A category licences
Accept - Police/firearms community advisory forum already commenced this process
15
Secure storage confirmed before licence or endorsement received
Reject
16
Allow Police to enter premises to inspect security of A category firearms
Reject
17
Failure to comply with storage regulations to result in mandatory revocation
Reject - but note new suspension of licence
Reducing the number of grey firearms
18
Clarify and publicise the extent of amnesty provisions in the Arms Act 1983
Accept - to progress in Arms Amendment Bill
19
Police publicise amnesty provisions
Reject
20
Check that firearms brought in on visitors permit are exported or transferred legally
Accept (administrative)
Additional Government Recommendations
1
Provide the power to suspend licences
Include in the Arms (Firearm Prohibition Orders and Firearms Licences) Amendment Bill
2
Police to improve its consultative processes with the firearms community
Propose to give a Ministerial Directive to this end

I'm no expert but that seems quite reasonable? Can anyone call out any fish hooks?

Originally Posted by Gibo

I'm no expert but that seems quite reasonable? Can anyone call out any fish hooks?

That's a 10/10 result for us I reckon

Originally Posted by Tommy

That's a 10/10 result for us I reckon