Thread: Downloading / Reduced loads for youth or recoil sensitive shooters

Originally Posted by The bomb

Wanting to get down to close to 7.62x39 speeds and recoil with the .308 for the young fella,150g bullet though as I have a good selection already.

Yep my data above should get you there with the 150gr.

One chap got down to 2100 fps with 29gr (155gr), I'd shoot 3 shot groups from 30gr to 32.5 and see how the velocity and grouping goes, if 32.5gr doesn't get the velocity you want and there's no pressure signs you could push a little higher.

Originally Posted by GWH

2570 fps mate, as on the pic (actually you may have asked before the pics were up) Basically 6.5 Grendel speeds.

What is the recoil [in lbs?]

Originally Posted by TeRei

What is the recoil [in lbs?]

I calculate it to be 7.3 lbs, but I dont believe that takes into account the effect of the suppressor, other than it increasing the weight of the rifle.

More importantly it was low enough for my skinny little 8 year old to handle no problem.

This rifle weighs 8.9 pounds with the B&C stock, 24" rem 700 barrel, DPT with 5x baffles and a fairly heavy Weaver Super slam scope, which obviously helps reduce the felt recoil.

Originally Posted by The bomb

Wanting to get down to close to 7.62x39 speeds and recoil with the .308 for the young fella,150g bullet though as I have a good selection already.

I have 150grn load data for lilgun believe it or not...got mate to do the fancypants computer thing (quickload) was more than happy with preformance.... you litterally cannot go wrong with 2206h in the wee case,you cant put/fit enough in to get into trouble,its ALMOST a matter of fill case up and poke projectile on top....

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

I have 150grn load data for lilgun believe it or not...got mate to do the fancypants computer thing (quickload) was more than happy with preformance.... you litterally cannot go wrong with 2206h in the wee case,you cant put/fit enough in to get into trouble,its ALMOST a matter of fill case up and poke projectile on top....

Are you talking about 308 or 7.62x39?

7.62x39mm thus "the wee case"

4198 seems to be the best powder for this sort of caper but I havent got any. Last week I loaded up some soft / light loads for a 270 re- barreled BSA Hunter. 56 gr of 2217 / H1000 and a 130 gr spire point for 2630 fps and about 42,000 cups, so only slightly more grunty than those reduced creedmore loads. 2000 - 2200 fps and 1500 fp is a minimum for a red stag so this load is good to 200mtrs. I have some 130 partitions to load for it

Greetings All,
A few notes on reduced loads in the .308. There isn't a lot of data about these days for IMR4198 in the .308 but i turned up some max loads from the Dupont 1975/76 and the IMR 2003 handloaders guides.
308W Max Loads
110 grain Hornady Spire Point projectile 38.5 grains of IMR4198 3,015 fps 51,100 CUP.
150 grain Remington PTD SPCL projectile 35.5 grains IMR4198 2,595 fps 51,300 CUP.
180 grain Remington PTD SPCL projectile 33.5 grains IMR4198 2,350 fps 51,600 CUP.

Reduced loads for my rifle Chronographed.
308W 22" barrel. Longish throut.
150 grain Hornady Spire Point projectile. R-P case 38 grains AR2206H 2,380 fps.
155 grain Frontier projectile. WW Super case 32 grains AR2206H 1,910 fps.
303 25" two groove barrel
150 grain Norma projectile Norma case 34 grains AR2206H 2,060 fps.
174 Hornady Round Nose Norma case 32 grains of AR2206H 2,080 fps.

The 155 grain Frontier is an excellent low cost and recoil practise load that the young shooter can use in bulk without costing the earth. All of the reduced loads can be shot with just neck sizing and periodic neck annealing. I use a Lee collet die for the .308 and a Lee Loader die for the .303. Case life is extra long.
Regards Grandpamac.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

4198 seems to be the best powder for this sort of caper but I havent got any. Last week I loaded up some soft / light loads for a 270 re- barreled BSA Hunter. 56 gr of 2217 / H1000 and a 130 gr spire point for 2630 fps and about 42,000 cups, so only slightly more grunty than those reduced creedmore loads. 2000 - 2200 fps and 1500 fp is a minimum for a red stag so this load is good to 200mtrs. I have some 130 partitions to load for it

For the purpose of reduced recoil loads, you can use AR2207 and Reloder 7 in place of IMR 4198. These powders do work well in cases up to 3006 sized cases.

Here's some more info from the chap that I learned about these reduced loads from...

I've loaded many a cartridge for kids to use...in many calibers
with the 270 being one...

Standard charge is around 30 grains of 4198....or can work up slightly higher to get the velocity and accuracy you want.

Cast bullet load manuals will give you lots of options...

and even tho, they are for cast bullets, the pressures of these loads
are WAAAAAY below SAAMI specs...

30 grains of 4198, prevent a double charge if one is the type
that doesn't pay attention to what they are doing...

IMR 4198 or H 4198 are pretty interchangeable for this application, as is AR2207 and RE7

What bullet weight you choose doesn't matter...

30 grains of 4198, turn most standard calibers into the equivalent of a 30/30.
at a 30/30s ball park speeds... using bullets that were designed for these lower impact velocities work well, ie 30/30 bullets in 308 or 3006, 6.5 Grendel bullets in 260 rem and 6.5CM, or even varmint bullets can work well on medium game when used at lower velocities.

still being a 200 yd deer load....

Originally Posted by GWH

For the purpose of reduced recoil loads, you can use AR2207 and Reloder 7 in place of IMR 4198. These powders do work well in cases up to 3006 sized cases.

Here's some more info from the chap that I learned about these reduced loads from...

I've loaded many a cartridge for kids to use...in many calibers
with the 270 being one...

Standard charge is around 30 grains of 4198....or can work up slightly higher to get the velocity and accuracy you want.

Cast bullet load manuals will give you lots of options...

and even tho, they are for cast bullets, the pressures of these loads
are WAAAAAY below SAAMI specs...

30 grains of 4198, prevent a double charge if one is the type
that doesn't pay attention to what they are doing...

IMR 4198 or H 4198 are pretty interchangeable for this application, as is AR2207 and RE7

What bullet weight you choose doesn't matter...

30 grains of 4198, turn most standard calibers into the equivalent of a 30/30.
at a 30/30s ball park speeds... using bullets that were designed for these lower impact velocities work well, ie 30/30 bullets in 308 or 3006, 6.5 Grendel bullets in 260 rem and 6.5CM, or even varmint bullets can work well on medium game when used at lower velocities.

still being a 200 yd deer load....

My BSA was a 7x57 so I thought to load ammo that has a similar 'cups' for it. I have a rem 700 270 that can be loaded up with grunty stuff. I know that the BSA can apparently handle more pressure but comparing the two actions the 700 is way stronger plus it is nice to have a light easy handling little bush and clearing rifle that doesnt kick or bark too much.
How slow could I go with a 270 and still be effective ? I just made the best of what powders I had on hand 2209, 2213 SuperF, H1000, AS70n, and the H1000 worked fine and gave a reasonable case fill with low pressure - circa 42,000 cups.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

My BSA was a 7x57 so I thought to load ammo that has a similar 'cups' for it. I have a rem 700 270 that can be loaded up with grunty stuff. I know that the BSA can apparently handle more pressure but comparing the two actions the 700 is way stronger plus it is nice to have a light easy handling little bush and clearing rifle that doesnt kick or bark too much.
How slow could I go with a 270 and still be effective ? I just made the best of what powders I had on hand 2209, 2213 SuperF, H1000, AS70n, and the H1000 worked fine and gave a reasonable case fill with low pressure - circa 42,000 cups.

It really comes down to what projectile you use, and how that performs at that impact velocity at said distance. Hence why frangible varmint bullets can work quite well with these lower velocities.

IE the 6mm 87gr Vmax performs damn well on medium game at lower impacts velocities, ie out around 400-500 yards from a full power 243. Equally, it would also work well at 150-200 yards if its terminal velocity was in the same area as it was at 400-500 yards from a full power load.

Originally Posted by GWH

It really comes down to what projectile you use, and how that performs at that impact velocity at said distance. Hence why frangible varmint bullets can work quite well with these lower velocities.

IE the 6mm 87gr Vmax performs damn well on medium game at lower impacts velocities, ie out around 400-500 yards from a full power 243. Equally, it would also work well at 150-200 yards if its terminal velocity was in the same area as it was at 400-500 yards from a full power load.

When I looked at using some 90 gr HP's (which I have already) in the BSA 270 reduced loads, then I read that they need to go at 3400 + to stabilise so that wont work. Just tricky with the component shortage to make the best of what we have esp when we dont need a lot of rounds

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

When I looked at using some 90 gr HP's (which I have already) in the BSA 270 reduced loads, then I read that they need to go at 3400 + to stabilise so that wont work. Just tricky with the component shortage to make the best of what we have esp when we dont need a lot of rounds

Maybe a 110gr Vmax?

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

When I looked at using some 90 gr HP's (which I have already) in the BSA 270 reduced loads, then I read that they need to go at 3400 + to stabilise so that wont work. Just tricky with the component shortage to make the best of what we have esp when we dont need a lot of rounds

that doesnt make sense....90grn projectile will be short stubby wee suckers...so if anything will be over stabilised cause they will be spinning too fast.
and a 90 grn .277 projectie will not produce stuff all recoil anyway....pick a middle of road load and have a go bud...you got nothing to loose.
I tried 110grn hps years ago and was awesome terminal preformance on SMALL stuff,they hardly exited hares!!!!! very very volatile. I have loaded them up for RUMPY and they work well for him too.... if you looking for reduced load for .270 and medium game,a 110grn will reduce recoil but a 130grn speer btsp will be a better bet as they are very soft while still being a bit heavier,the 150s would work too....

My main full power hunting load is 43g 2206h with 150g Cor lokt ,was thinking 35g might be a good starting point,work up in .5g increments ,no chrono so be guesswork mostly ,will go for most accurate ..dpt suppressed A7 with 16 in barrel.