Thread: FMJ on animals

there was an article in a nz gun mag where they took the projectile out and turned it round and shot it backwards apparently it worked well they were shooting goats with it

Originally Posted by res

It has happened a lot, wether it has killed anyone is another question.

I have my grandfathers old rifle that has a fucked barrel from this happening.
My father just clipped the tips off with side cutters for close bush hunting-one day he took to much off.

Fmj is a misleading name as most jacketed projectiles are formed from "cups" of the jacket material-on fmj the remnants of the open top of the cup is at the back while soft point/hollow point/ballistic tip hunting ammo has it at the front.
So if you take to much off the front the high psi of the propellant could push the core out.

You used to be able to buy kits that took a "safe" amount off and created a hollow point.
I doubt they would be considered safe today.

It's a long time since I loaded with FMJ, but I'm pretty sure that the base was open, which is the reverse of a softpoint, where the copper covers the base. I can see a situation where the jacket could be left in the barrel if both ends are open.

Originally Posted by Yukon

It's a long time since I loaded with FMJ, but I'm pretty sure that the base was open, which is the reverse of a softpoint, where the copper covers the base. I can see a situation where the jacket could be left in the barrel if both ends are open.

Quite right. The construction is shown in a diagram here. If you file the top off an FMJ all that is holding the core into the copper jacket (Or full metal jacket) is the shoulder or taper at the front. With the availability of the SP or HP projectiles I would not suggest altering an FMJ into anything else. The risk of damage to the gun and your person is definitely there if it is done wrong. Note that of you take the tip off a FMJ then all you have is a metal tube open at both ends with a heavy core in the middle. The resistance of the rifling in the barrel pulls the hard metal exterior but if that distorts there is nothing pulling the core back hence where it leaves the possibility of having a jacket left in the barrel after the core is gone.

hey haven't forgotten the pic I moved a little while ago and havnt come across my recovered projectile collection amongst all my crap yet

have a read of this, well worth the time. It speaks about the 223 overall and also what a FMJ does on impact etc
.223 Remington

I tried some FMJ 223 on goats once because I don't like all the wastage from SP. It was only 20m away and took them straight down with vital shots, but the bleeding still wasted a lot of meat and from inspecting the wounds I saw how sensitive it was to shot placement. Have a go and judge for yourself. I don't use them now though, not much point since SP is still cheap, I just use the steel-case Russian stuff which is fine.

found them these are 6.5x55 that had the tips filed

Um, the chances of a jacket being left in the barrel is an almost comical idea to me, I have great difficulty believing it. Also I dont think lead is poured in but swagged (pressed) in.

The weakest bullets you are going to get will be cast lead, so taking off the copper jacket of an FMJ at the tip where it sees less force of the spin but leaving the main body shouldnt be an issue.

On top of that a good FMJ that is designed to break up by tumbling, well it just seems casually altering it to remove this capability, odd.

Originally Posted by steven

Um, the chances of a jacket being left in the barrel is an almost comical idea to me, I have great difficulty believing it. Also I dont think lead is poured in but swagged (pressed) in.

The weakest bullets you are going to get will be cast lead, so taking off the copper jacket of an FMJ at the tip where it sees less force of the spin but leaving the main body shouldnt be an issue.

On top of that a good FMJ that is designed to break up by tumbling, well it just seems casually altering it to remove this capability, odd.

Go find an old gunsmith and ask him, When I first started shooting I used to hang out at the local gunshop quite a lot the gunsmith that owned it was ex army and had a stack of .303 barrels
taken of old stuffed Le Enfield's a good number of them had jackets stuck in them, a .303 has 45000 psi pressure when fired so a lead plug is not going to stop it, the lead core is swaged into the jacket
not bonded, as lead is soft and slippery compared to the jacket it will part company with the jacket leaving it in the barrel, FMJ's are not designed to break up that just happens some times go to any range
and you will find FMJ's intact most of them will be bent like bananas the broken up ones are ricochets thats where the tumbling bullets come from not from hitting flesh, any bullet so unstable that it tumbles
on impact is not any use it won't fly straight or penetrate far enough the military is all about putting holes through things if the projectiles break up on light cover they are not of much use,
Also cast lead bullets are harder than the cores of FMJ's bullets general they are pure lead as it is easy to swage into the jackets, soft point bullet cores are some what harder usually 3% antinomy
is added to pure lead to slow expansion, where a cast bullet is made up of 92% lead 6% antimony 2% tin, If you want cheap bullets use cast ones as long as there are wheel weights and lead flashings
available there will be plenty of cheap bullets,This is what a cast bullet will do if you get it wrong

One of our club members shot a couple of deer recently with 62gr ADI projectiles and said it worked mint. Don't know any other details.

Looks like you got it right if that's an exit?

Not really wasted a lot of meat, bullet was to soft for the velocity

Its mostly depends upon the ammo you have and after that size of animal you are going to hunt.

Guys, please don't cheap out on killing animals, we need to keep our sport as humane as possible despite what anyone may tell you about FMJ. Keep your FMJ for your steel and paper targets as I do.

Thanks

I will agree with you on that, however I would seriously wonder how many on here who only take home a handful of deer per year would consider using less than the 'best' projectile for the job. It's the one thread I'm always reading up on. It's interesting.
We are so lucky today with our possible selections. Even the bare-bones SP is effective as and is as cheap as chips. Or chops.