Thread: Help a newb: No firearm experience -> Long range precision rifle

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Hi, have a look at a member called Norways videos, the principles of marksmanship remain constant irrespective of the rifle.
Shoot a 22 rimfire to 200 yards in field conditions and a 308 at 1000 yards will be easy

Cool thanks for that, will look him up and add him to the ever growing youtube watch-list haha

Originally Posted by gonetropo

Guinness drinkers should never own a 7-08 get a 7mmRM and big boy pants

Nah they just fall down so pointless, bit like a RM

OK you fellas are to polite to say it......... @GreenHorn what you are asking is sort of like......Im about to get my drivers licence ,shall I get a F1 farrari or a mercedes for my first car.I intend to zip out around le mons next week......

baby steps, you need to learn to walk before you can sprint a marathon....
shooting with accuracy is a art form and takes a hell of a lot of time,energy,expence and dedication to be proficient at it.

the suggestion of getting a .22lr is very wise one.....in fact,shooting a .22lr at 200 yards is similar in many ways to centrefire at 8-900 yards.....
it takes the same skill set to do it correctly and with any sucess BUT, at a much lower cost, both in outlay and ammunition while still needing the trigger control,steadyness of aim and good shooting form.... it will if you like allow you to dip your toes and learn the HOW TO,of shooting before expending large amounts of dosh and possibly,some would say probably developing flinch from big bangs n recoil before you are used to them.

Thanks Micky Duck, that does make sense. I figured I was jumping too far ahead when I couldn’t find any “prs for beginners” that was on my level so it’s good to see it confirmed here with experienced shooters and quench my over zealousness haha

Will be sticking to 22lr bolt action and not rush

Definitely start with a 22, either CZ 457 or a T1x. Both are a good based to build in layer should you want to upgrade stock/chassis and build a more competition based rifle.
22 is considerably cheaper to shoot and going forward there are likely going to me more 22 PRS type shoots near Auckland than centrefire.

If you wanted a centrefire 223 is definitely the cheapest way to start and will be surprisingly competitive for both PRS and more traditional F class type shooting, especially as you are new to shooting.
I'd personally buy a Tikka CTR or Varmint in your shoes, again a very good base to build on and easier to upgrade than an RPR should you need to.

Whatever rifle you start with make sure you don't cheap out on the scope.
There are some really good lower cost options these days far better than even 5 years ago but if PRS is what your goal is rather than hunting, it'll be easy to go in the wrong direction.

As far as when to transition from rimfire to centrefire, you can do so at any stage. Preferably once you have a good understanding of safety and general gun handling, as well as a reasonable understanding of shooting fundamentals. But if your goal is to do PRS type events I'd personally stick to 22 until you have the hang of it. Most people only progress to a centrefire as they progress from hunting small game to big game, for target shooting that obviously doesn't matter.

As far as when to attend matches I'd say sooner rather than later.
If you have have the basics sorted out, as in you can handle/operate the rifle/scope competently, can shoot with some degree of accuracy (1" groups at 50m is more than good enough) and have basic idea of shooting fundamentals then I'd sign up to a match. A 22 match is certainly much easier to start out with than centrefire.

I'd just let the match organizers know you are a newbie and they'll put you with experienced guys who can help you throughout the day.

Unless you shoot with guys who are competive shooters its unlikely you'll be very well prepared for match or know about half the crap videos and forums talk about for PRS type events. Getting along to a match and having people guide you is by far the best way to get into it.

Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

Clover leaves at fifty meters every time?
That rules most of us out from owning centerfires.
But I do agree spend time on a rim fire until everything is comfortable. But know the rimfires limitations if you plan hunting with one.

OK, maybe most of the time, rather than every time or call it 0.5 MOA groups. Just a suggestion, it's doable once the skills have been acquired and rifle has been accurised. Casual plinking with a 10/22 is not going to get this guy to where he wants to be.

Originally Posted by Beetroot

Definitely start with a 22, either CZ 457 or a T1x. Both are a good based to build in layer should you want to upgrade stock/chassis and build a more competition based rifle.
22 is considerably cheaper to shoot and going forward there are likely going to me more 22 PRS type shoots near Auckland than centrefire.

If you wanted a centrefire 223 is definitely the cheapest way to start and will be surprisingly competitive for both PRS and more traditional F class type shooting, especially as you are new to shooting.
I'd personally buy a Tikka CTR or Varmint in your shoes, again a very good base to build on and easier to upgrade than an RPR should you need to.

Whatever rifle you start with make sure you don't cheap out on the scope.
There are some really good lower cost options these days far better than even 5 years ago but if PRS is what your goal is rather than hunting, it'll be easy to go in the wrong direction.

As far as when to transition from rimfire to centrefire, you can do so at any stage. Preferably once you have a good understanding of safety and general gun handling, as well as a reasonable understanding of shooting fundamentals. But if your goal is to do PRS type events I'd personally stick to 22 until you have the hang of it. Most people only progress to a centrefire as they progress from hunting small game to big game, for target shooting that obviously doesn't matter.

As far as when to attend matches I'd say sooner rather than later.
If you have have the basics sorted out, as in you can handle/operate the rifle/scope competently, can shoot with some degree of accuracy (1" groups at 50m is more than good enough) and have basic idea of shooting fundamentals then I'd sign up to a match. A 22 match is certainly much easier to start out with than centrefire.

I'd just let the match organizers know you are a newbie and they'll put you with experienced guys who can help you throughout the day.

Unless you shoot with guys who are competive shooters its unlikely you'll be very well prepared for match or know about half the crap videos and forums talk about for PRS type events. Getting along to a match and having people guide you is by far the best way to get into it.

Great advice, thank you. I’ve whittled my options down to CZ 457 (varmint not available at least not at the moment) or T1x.

I’m still learning about optics but have seen many views echo the same; don’t skimp on optics. I like the concept of First focal plane but not sure if I’m going way overkill for a 22lr or if this is appropriate future proofing for future higher caliber rifles. Zero stop seems to be an absolute must for competition use. My knowledge is still very lacking.

At the moment it just so happens that GunCity has a package deal on both options, but comes with a ranger 3x9x40 with ballistic reticle (and a silencer which I’m unphased about having). Looking at $1500-1550 for 457 and t1x respectively

Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

Clover leaves at fifty meters every time?
That rules most of us out from owning centerfires.
But I do agree spend time on a rim fire until everything is comfortable. But know the rimfires limitations if you plan hunting with one.

red clover.........LOL

Originally Posted by GreenHorn

Cool - Riverhead deerstalkers is on my list to visit when I get time off work. Are these PRS 22 shoots held within Deer Stalkers as a community or you mean in a general/ auckland-based sense?

Check out the guys at Taranaki Long Range on FB. The second in a series of 22 shoots is on in early August. The GunRack also on FB recently held a 22 shoot in Northern Waikato.

Originally Posted by GreenHorn

Great advice, thank you. I’ve whittled my options down to CZ 457 (varmint not available at least not at the moment) or T1x.

I’m still learning about optics but have seen many views echo the same; don’t skimp on optics. I like the concept of First focal plane but not sure if I’m going way overkill for a 22lr or if this is appropriate future proofing for future higher caliber rifles. Zero stop seems to be an absolute must for competition use. My knowledge is still very lacking.

At the moment it just so happens that GunCity has a package deal on both options, but comes with a ranger 3x9x40 with ballistic reticle (and a silencer which I’m unphased about having). Looking at $1500-1550 for 457 and t1x respectively

I wouldn't by a package deal, if you are dead set on PRS then those scopes are fairly useless.
Bear in mind if you are just wanting to get started and PRS is some pipe dream, then maybe go a different direction.

For PRS you want a FFP Mil scope, definitely with a zero stop, preferably with turrets that have 10mil per revolution. I don't know your budget but you should be able to find something that suits in most price ranges these days.Theres no reason to not start with a FFP scope and you may as well go Mil instead of MOA as that's likely what you'll end up with in the future.

There are good reasons not to go FFP if you are not looking to do PRS (for hunting or other target disciplines) but PRS is the ultimate goal you may as well start buying the right gear to start with, when I first started there wasn't the options we have today so I spent years buying and selling stuff trying to find somethign that was suitable, loosing money along the way.
If you can find used gear that is a great way to get started, so long as it is well cared for it's hard to go wrong, especially with a 22.

So much good advice here @GreenHorn

If you're starting out entirely from scratch with little experience I would strongly suggest you make an effort to go to as many different club shooting events as you can find. By their nature club events are very sociable and supportive, not to mention a good way to get the fundamentals of safety ingrained from the beginning. They're also full of people who have a wealth of experience and take great delight in getting you hooked on their particular brand of fun!

Make sure to go try lots of different types of shooting - it's one thing to read and watch about it, often the reality is quite different to what you imagine. You never know what might inspire you once you try it.

I'm fairly sure that despite all of the rounds of my ammo I've got new shooters to put downrange, I've not equalled the rounds other generous folks insisted I shoot as a youngster when I started out. But I'm working on it ��

there is a VERY good norinco with a very tidy 6x leupold scope coming up for sale soon,scope has a dialable top turret fitted..I SHOULD NEVER HAVE SOLD THIS COMBO..... the rifle has been owned by me twice and has nicest trigger Ive ever seen on a .22lr...tiny creep then crisp break,unless really concentrating the first stage isnt even noticed,when in the zone you can take up first pressure then pop... not a target rifle as such..but keep an eye out for it and think about it....

Hi Greenhorn

PRS requires many skills and you will be surprised how hard it is till you have a few of them up to speed.
Rifle setup is crucial as is using quality gear if at all possible. Makes it so much easier to learn. Tikka or CZ will be good. Sako or anschutz better if by any chance youve got lots of money. Buy new. You will find it much easier to progress your skills when using top quality gear.
FFP scopes are easier to use for target shooting but are currently more expensive than similar quality SFP and if it dials it will be OK you dont have to have FFP.
You will find it hard to shoot 1” groups at 50m with a 22. I do. Youll need to try 2 or 3 sorts of ammo to get useable accuracy for 22 practical shoots beyond 50m and its bound to be the $20 abox stuff that shoots best.
The basic shooting skills you need are 4 position unsupported: prone sitting kneeling and standing ( plus of course pronevvwith rest or bipod). With a 22 practice these at 25 yd andmost brands of ammo will perform well enough at that distance to allow you to progress. This is where cloverleaf can be achievable with a good rest. You will know you are good when you can shoot 1” prone spread of centres and sitting , 1.5” kneeling and 3” standing at 25 yd.
Next is using supports which is the challenging stuff in PRS.
For longer range like over 50m for 22 or over 200m for centrefire allowing for trajectory and wind are the skills. This is what Norway focusses on.
So you can see theres a stepwise lot of stuff to learn but dont hesitate to go to competitions right from the start. Its good to see how others do it but take note of which shooters get the top scores and follow their example.
Look for GPRE events on facebook and go to some. You will need to do a lot of driving.

Hey Greenhorn,

Welcome to the rabbithole that is shooting. A .22 rimfire is the best thing around for a beginner. And for the lads that do many competitions of all disciplines I will hazard a guess that they.shoot more .22 than they do everything else combined. You can't beat it for a training round. My 2c, one of the older jw15 norinco .22s, a half decent dialable scope (vortex diamondback tactical FFP or similar) and 2000 rounds of cci standard velocity ammo. Shoot all that ammo, practicing positional shooting etc. Once you have done that, I will all but guarantee you will not embarrass yourself at any outing. Along the way at the ranges, pick the brains of any of these greybeards you see around, they have probably made every.mistake there is so a good resource.

Then once you have done that you will hate the jw15, and you will know exactly what .22 you want to have next

Thanks Lars

If a used Norinco EM-332 comes up for sale, jump on it. Excellent performers for the money - at least as good as anything double the coin, and arguably better value than a new 'name brand' rimfire.
Sound advice to try out a few different brands / loading to achieve best possible accuracy in whatever rifle you decide to buy. Rimfires can be exceptionally picky when it comes to their diet.