Thread: Knockdown power

Originally Posted by Woody

Iv'e used both and at short range I would agree with Rons comments a out 7*61 damage. However, that cartridge was developed to provide superior bc and trajectory, wind resistance at longer ranges and its accuracy was legendary. Designed to meet higher parameters at long range.
Still, a good 30-06 with good bc 178-180 grain bullets with mv 2700'/s + is a very good hunting round. The 06 will chuck a high bc 165grain bullet using 2209 @ 2900'/s. To me it is an awesome calibre.

30 06 is still considered one of the very best, all-round cartridges in the US. It simply does the job and all going well, is capable of stopping anything. 7x57 falls into much the same class by all accounts. Both are relatively pleasant to shoot, which is probably another factor

There are heaps of factors. Quiet animals versus spooked etc. The adrenalin of a big red stag in the roar. Its incredible how far a 'technically-dead' animal can run sometimes. The difference in species is another. It is what it is, succesful hunters figure out what works, and get on with it. There will always be occasions that seem to defy logic, thats how it is, must be time for a coffee

Originally Posted by 7.62

As others have pointed out, knock down power in terms of the bullet’s kinetic energy literally knocking an animal over, is a myth. The reason an animal gets poleaxed is generally when the bullet has caused catastrophic damage to the brain, spinal column, or the autonomic plexus; it wasn’t dropped by straight out kinetic energy.

But in my mind kinetic energy is still critical for a quick kill. There’s been a bit of discussion in this thread about hydrostatic shock, temporary wound channels, and blood pressure spikes to the brain all causing immediate incapacitation, even though the bullet may not have directly hit and damaged the CNS. I’m no pathologist but this makes a lot of sense to me. If we compare a bow hunter making a clean double lung shot on a red hind at 50yd, to a rifle hunter also making a lung shot on a hind at 150yd, what is the likely outcome? In the archery scenario the arrow has arrived with minimal energy, maybe 100ftlb, but it has still inflicted massive damage to the lungs and associated blood vessels. Despite this the hind still runs 75yd until she expires from blood loss. And what of our mate with a 270 or 308 running some SSTs at a decent speed? Well the hind 150yd away has been completely flattened. The SST has arrived with over 2000ftlb of energy and caused massive damage to the lungs, and has also instantly incapacitated the hind. Was this caused by hydrostatic shock or some other mechanism? I have no idea but kinetic energy is a good thing!

The shock wave from a high velocity bullet cannot be underestimated for 'stunning' the animal which then bleeds to death and dies while laying on the ground. We have all seen a 'stunned' animal that we thought had been killed instantly, leap to its feet before the eight count and leave the ring. This 20 second link shows the shockwave: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osNWIP7tg3Y

Nope. Just nope.

@Moa Hunter this article is worth a read https://www.themeateater.com/wired-t...tic-shock-real
It backs up what I’ve experienced with a 223 running a 55gr Barnes compared to a 308 with 150 SSTs

My 308 165ssts had enough knock down power at 120yds.Shot thru the sholders,dropped on the spot,didnt take one step,bang flop.Sort of surprized my self woow.He was chasing a couple of girls at 6.30am in early April 2016.My 1st roar stag.He was a big buggar to cut up,i was a bit stuffed after dealing with him.

Originally Posted by 7.62

@Moa Hunter this article is worth a read https://www.themeateater.com/wired-t...tic-shock-real
It backs up what I’ve experienced with a 223 running a 55gr Barnes compared to a 308 with 150 SSTs

I have said it before....I find the 50grn ttsx SIMILAR to mild 130grn cup n core but damage is in reverse order.

How do people feel about "knockdown power" in large calibres such as the 300s and 338s with 200gr plus pills. You are almost guaranteed a pass through and so I ask how much every is imparted into the animal?. I know there will be a bigger hole but I do wonder exactly how efficient these cartridges are. Yes there are advantages in getting the bullet in target with less wind drift.
We have already been told in this thread of a 1.5 inch tree that got killed behind a goat. How much of the 45/70s energy was used in the animal

Originally Posted by TeRei

Ron as in the colour?

That's him.
GPM

Originally Posted by Remmodel7

How do people feel about "knockdown power" in large calibres such as the 300s and 338s with 200gr plus pills. You are almost guaranteed a pass through and so I ask how much every is imparted into the animal?. I know there will be a bigger hole but I do wonder exactly how efficient these cartridges are. Yes there are advantages in getting the bullet in target with less wind drift.
We have already been told in this thread of a 1.5 inch tree that got killed behind a goat. How much of the 45/70s energy was used in the animal

I think there is an exponential increase in observed 'knock down' with those big cals if they are loaded with the right bullet.

Originally Posted by Trout

Attachment 178322
My 308 165ssts had enough knock down power at 120yds.Shot thru the sholders,dropped on the spot,didnt take one step,bang flop.Sort of surprized my self woow.He was chasing a couple of girls at 6.30am in early April 2016.My 1st roar stag.He was a big buggar to cut up,i was a bit stuffed after dealing with him.

Very nicely shaped stag I have to say! This vid explains what happened and is well worth a quick watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_x9vR_0KM8

Just watched that MH,very good vid.What my old old uncle who is still alive in Te Anau said.Theres bugger all meat on the sholder.Smack a deer in there,the sholder blades is like the crank in yr car,its brakes up,car stops =deer stops.My best shot was on a fallow buck a few yrs ago.Dropped on the spot at 437yds.Shot thru the sholders.Love thoses 165gr ssts.

Ive not really followed this thread too much. But i Just chronographed my new 7mm08 load this morning, 162 amax, rl17 17" barrel doing 2495, that gives me 1000ftlbs at 585m, but i believe impact velocity is more important to look at when using a match bullet for hunting. Not great velocities but an es of 4 was pretty nice to see, gives me every confidence that i can cleanly take animals past 500m.

Originally Posted by Remmodel7

How do people feel about "knockdown power" in large calibres such as the 300s and 338s with 200gr plus pills. You are almost guaranteed a pass through and so I ask how much every is imparted into the animal?. I know there will be a bigger hole but I do wonder exactly how efficient these cartridges are. Yes there are advantages in getting the bullet in target with less wind drift.
We have already been told in this thread of a 1.5 inch tree that got killed behind a goat. How much of the 45/70s energy was used in the animal

With the larger calibers I think you are better to use a light-for-caliber bullet with a thin jacket when hunting soft skinned game at medium ranges; but I’m talking 9.3mm or bigger here, proper big bores! If you had a 375H&H in the safe, a 235gr Speer would be simply devastating on anything in NZ

Also, the long range guys using heavy high BC 300s or 338s are normally using something with a pretty thin jacket that still gives good terminal performance, despite being a heavy bullet