Thread: Long range shooting course

It works as well but you frequently hit performance ceilings and it will take time to identify and break through.

...recently bought a book about olympic level shooting. Bloody useful for my positionbuilding and the result reflects in ELR. (these guys shoot 6mm groups prone)

...so I wasn't on top three weeks ago but I have certainly improved since then.

Time spent vs shooting done is possibly my biggest gripe with competitions.

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

And you wonder why so many of us are not interested in competitive shoots.

Yep it is a major challenge to setting a shoot to keep people moving, shooting and interested throughout the day. Trying to set up a shoot that will sufficiently challenge all those attend and still get just about everyone good success rates is very difficult. Shoots that are simply too hard are difficult to get many people back to.

Originally Posted by Tussock

Im confident that F-Class would show up my flaws for F-Class.

In the mountains, I find I am rarely found under time constraints. More commonly, I am found asleep under a tree.

I shoot varmints. They are little. They run around, and they are a long way away when thats where I look. There are many of them in the hills who know my flaws.

Im of the opinion that honest self evaluation is key to improvement. As long as your fixated on where your at, and where you want to be, and put the time in you will get better.

I would enter competition for the fun of it, and to meet a few people. But in my experience, egos usually play a part. I couldnt be bothered.

I really cant understand this attitude Tussock .Ego , what wrong with EGO .Ego drives people to be better -I wonder if the alternative is tall poppy cutter syndrome -which is worse -Id rather have a big Ego , lots of confidence and get up and go

Originally Posted by el borracho

I really cant understand this attitude Tussock .Ego , what wrong with EGO .Ego drives people to be better -I wonder if the alternative is tall poppy cutter syndrome -which is worse -Id rather have a big Ego , lots of confidence and get up and go

Ego eh? Well if Gillie does not mind I would like mention his father. He has no ego that he displayed yet would be one of the best service rifle shots I have seen. He won 5 or 6 Queens Medals with 2 different service rifles over as many years.
I remember him as a quiet unassuming bloke that went about his business quietly. He may have loved competing, but did it humbly.

Its the beauty of life R96 -different colours

Let me ask you also R96 did you quest to be in a top area of the army not get driven by your ego of wanting also to be better than average -I bet it did -use your ego well and go far NA noo na noo

Originally Posted by Tussock

Im confident that F-Class would show up my flaws for F-Class.

In the mountains, I find I am rarely found under time constraints. More commonly, I am found asleep under a tree.

I shoot varmints. They are little. They run around, and they are a long way away when thats where I look. There are many of them in the hills who know my flaws.

Im of the opinion that honest self evaluation is key to improvement. As long as your fixated on where your at, and where you want to be, and put the time in you will get better.

I would enter competition for the fun of it, and to meet a few people. But in my experience, egos usually play a part. I couldnt be bothered.

I have seen very few people in shooting competitions with big egos. I am assuming it is because the people with big egos get beaten the first time and because of their egos they don't want to come back and sacrifice winning for learning. Shooting is a sport where ego/confidence makes absolutely no difference.

A big ego doesnt mean theyre going to rub it in your face every opportunity but they might say yes I shoot very well .For some tall poppy cutter types thats just the end of the world . For me I dont give a flying rats arse -great if the person believes in themselves and confesses it so what .Confidence does help Savage1 ,it might not make you win but confidence is very important in all you do even if your not as good as you think you are.
I think youre better around a big ego than someone that want you to be at their level and never be any different to anyone else -tall poppy cutters -a dangerous breed that dont often want to recognize themselves

Originally Posted by Savage1

I have seen very few people in shooting competitions with big egos. I am assuming it is because the people with big egos get beaten the first time and because of their egos they don't want to come back and sacrifice winning for learning. Shooting is a sport where ego/confidence makes absolutely no difference.

Ego and confidence are different things. To be a top level shooter confidence is absolutely necessary. The mental game of shooting when you get to the top level is everything and if you are not confident that is reflected in your score. Ego and boasting about your prowess tends to help other people shooting but not necessarily your own. I have seen very few serious competitors with big egos. In my experience you are correct Savage1, the guys with big egos don't stay with the sport.

And Malcolm hasn't changed from your description R93. What i really like about him and a few others i have met along the way are that they queitly shoot well and are the first to help someone out or volunteer to help run a shoot as well as compete in it.

I bet Malcom likes winning and enjoys it like every body else -it does the ego wonders to get a few under the belt -when no ones listning he probably shouts and hops around yelling I beat you all you lame arses "YES" LOL

[QUOTE=veitnamcam;29616][/I][/B]

And you wonder why so many of us are not interested in competitive shoots.[/QUOTE

Another reason for the competitive type shoot that I want to run more often on the forum is it organizes people rather than have everybody shooting aimlessly "excuse the pun" and gives a day organization and goals to achieve . Growing in ability and knowledge makes people more excited and useful to themselves when using a rifle

Originally Posted by el borracho

.Ego , what wrong with EGO .Ego drives people to be better -I wonder if the alternative is tall poppy cutter syndrome -which is worse -Id rather have a big Ego , lots of confidence and get up and go

el borracho, in part I agree with you: what you have called "tall poppy cutter syndrome" (usually just called "tall poppy syndrome" in NZ) can be a real problem.

-However, I don't believe that is necessarily the exclusive alternative to "ego". It may be an alternative to egotism, but often I believe with see the worst examples of "tall poppy syndrome" from those who are in fact 'egotistical' in nature. (usually occuring when their egos have been damaged by someone doing something better than them).

-Finally, I agree with you that "ego" may motivate some people to success. However, I believe that people can be motivated to success by its own merits, without the need for egotism. I would suggest that being motivated simply by ego may be dangerous, as a lack of 'success' would then by definition damage the ego, and potentially remove enjoyment from the activity.

-A final danger to egotism lies in the way in which it is perceived/received by society. (I'm not picking a fight here simply showing a different view): "EGO drives people to be better", but many would also argue that: 'Ego can drive people to be Dickheads, even in the face of reason'.

Interesting developmet
Not quite understanding the cultural references (too see me try and pick up a kiwi girl would be hilarious to onlookers, there are palpable differences in social code if minor).

Back to the LR courses:
- No I don't think I'll hold any courses on North Island. I love SI and that is where I'll go. The courses I hold (it's not really a course) is not really anything special, they are just basic introductions - putting the marksmanship principles into a workstream. There's plenty of expertise locally to hold the same course and better as you'd have more time and can do followups. People listen to me only because of a perceived skill, but I'm not doing anything you're not - I'm just systematic.

From what little I have gleaned, kiwi shooters are lacking in confidence but not skill. Link to last course and here the shooters grasped the principles quickly and were shortly shooting head sized targets at 7-800 meters with rifles as "unsuitable" as a Remington 7. In a short span as one day is, only forced progression can be offered, leaving the shooter to pick off bad habits and assimilate on his own accord later. All I can do is to repeat the same message again and again, there's no voodoo in physics and you must have the basics. Put the basics into a workstream routine and you'll see how remarkably effective you'll shoot.

You have shooters that are technically highly proficient, hunters that are highly experienced (I have met quite a few now, and kiwi hunters are on the average as good as they come) and participants who gladly share and put in an effort for others.

My hope is that you'd stop looking to the US motormouths, replace "Norways LR CD" with an updated local version* and put what you already have into an accessible and inclusive system.

(* I'd suggest you divide various topics out to board members, telling them to make 3-10 "childrens book pages" (tons of pics, little text), collect them, put them in order and publish as a pdf.)

Originally Posted by Norway

Not quite understanding the cultural references

Dont worry mate, I dont get half of it here either. Bit like the time at work with numerous girlies around as we talked about food, I took time to reminisce about as a rookie in the job on early turn at about 7am I used to love to tuck into a fresh juicy growler.....

Apparently it has nothing to do with pies here