Thread: New range laws and shooting on unregistered ranges

[QUOTE=Ross Nolan;1286245]

Originally Posted by gundoc

Please note that any Police 'interpretation' has no legal standing, and many times in the past has been found unlawful by the courts.

The process is the punishment - it is no skin off the Police's nose if they take a case and lose, and in the meantime Joe Public has (possibly) an arrest, time and cost to fight it in court, all against a body that uses our money to fight us.

Your "many times" comment suggests that not much change is occurring with the blue group.

Not to mention it being used as a reason to label you not "fit and proper"

Originally Posted by gundoc

Please note that any Police 'interpretation' has no legal standing, and many times in the past has been found unlawful by the courts. The only thing that is legal is the 'plain English' meaning of the words as they are written in the legislation. Whilst the 'intent' of parliament can be taken into account when judges consider the meaning of a piece of legislation, if the written word has been poorly drafted and does not reflect the intent of parliament then that is tough luck for the prosecution as the written word takes precedence. Reading the legislation on ranges makes it obvious that it does not impact on casual shooting on any land where you have the legal right to be (DOC or private) provided it is not an organised or regular event shooting at 'inanimate targets', and is being done in a safe manner. Go to your mate's farm and develop your handloads or sight-in your rifle without getting all twisted about the regulations relating to range certification!

I completely agree gundoc hence my later comment:

Originally Posted by Gillie

I think we'll need case law to set a precedent... if the Police interpretation stays in the coming Regulations.

Of course if the Police interpretation is written directly into the regulations we have slightly different kettle of fish to deal with. Best we all get to providing public feedback on the draft regulations and draft Police Shooting Range Manual when it is released publicly.

Of course if the Police interpretation is written directly into the regulations we have slightly different kettle of fish to deal with. Best we all get to providing public feedback on the draft regulations and draft Police Shooting Range Manual when it is released publicly.

The Regulations can only be made as directed by the Act, they cannot subvert the Act which always remains the guiding document. Not that they would not try of course!

Originally Posted by Gillie

I completely agree gundoc hence my later comment:


Of course if the Police interpretation is written directly into the regulations we have slightly different kettle of fish to deal with. Best we all get to providing public feedback on the draft regulations and draft Police Shooting Range Manual when it is released publicly.

Appreciate the information and contribution gillie. It's important we keep as informed as possible.

Greetings All,
I would be more concerned over the Police Shooting Range Manual. Although this will no doubt be written from the viewpoint of a club range the danger areas are likely to at least partly to home ranges under the Health and Safety rules in other legislation, especially after any unfortunate accidents. I am looking at re aligning my range for this reason.
Regards Grandpamac.

Originally Posted by Danger Mouse

Appreciate the information and contribution gillie. It's important we keep as informed as possible.

Its a little tricky. Until Police actually release their "Exposure draft" Shooting Range Manual i am not allowed to distribute it. I can talk to whats in it in general though...

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings All,
I would be more concerned over the Police Shooting Range Manual. Although this will no doubt be written from the viewpoint of a club range the danger areas are likely to at least partly to home ranges under the Health and Safety rules in other legislation, especially after any unfortunate accidents. I am looking at re aligning my range for this reason.
Regards Grandpamac.

In the soon to be released "exposure Draft" Police Shooting Range Manual a range that doesn't already fall under the HSWA2015 will not be required to fall under it. The HSWA2015 is very clear about volunteer organisations, etc. A commercial range being operated as a business right now does fall under the HSWA and that won't change. A "range" on a farm, if it is not operated as part of the farm business, does not necessarily fall under the HSWA either.

Originally Posted by Gillie

Its a little tricky. Until Police actually release their "Exposure draft" Shooting Range Manual i am not allowed to distribute it. I can talk to whats in it in general though...



In the soon to be released "exposure Draft" Police Shooting Range Manual a range that doesn't already fall under the HSWA2015 will not be required to fall under it. The HSWA2015 is very clear about volunteer organisations, etc. A commercial range being operated as a business right now does fall under the HSWA and that won't change. A "range" on a farm, if it is not operated as part of the farm business, does not necessarily fall under the HSWA either.

Where it got difficult in day's long gone was if you gave school kids a few dollars to pull targets for you at your (non commercial) rifle club.
That of course has disappeared as an issue (except at Trentham Nats?) as what kid will give up a Saturday for 2 bob?

Here the pay rate was a bag of chips and bottle of fizz

Greetings All,
In my last post I tried not refer only to the HSWA but also to other legislation that governs our duty not to recklessly endanger others. The principal risk in having a home range is that a projectile goes further than we intend. Some of us try to mitigate tis by siting the range where we have a decent backstop but others not so much. My concern is that the very high standards needed for a centrefire range where position shooting is done get applied to the home range where only a few shots are fired and those from a bench. I will read the draft with interest when it is released.
Regards Grandpamac.

Originally Posted by Gillie

Best place is the Police "Exposure Draft" Shooting Range Manual that should be released publicly in the next few weeks.

I think we'll need case law to set a precedent... if the Police interpretation stays in the coming Regulations.

Another option is the seek a declaratory statement/judgement from the High Court to clarify the interpretation.

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings All,
In my last post I tried not refer only to the HSWA but also to other legislation that governs our duty not to recklessly endanger others. The principal risk in having a home range is that a projectile goes further than we intend. Some of us try to mitigate tis by siting the range where we have a decent backstop but others not so much. My concern is that the very high standards needed for a centrefire range where position shooting is done get applied to the home range where only a few shots are fired and those from a bench. I will read the draft with interest when it is released.
Regards Grandpamac.

Absolutely agree - and I have spent ~18 months trying to convince the Police staff involved of this. Our history of 0 incidents has to demonstrate what we are doing now works?
So far the definition of "decent backstop" in the Exposure Draft Police Shooting Range Manual is almost impossible to comply with unless you are shooting into a bluff, have an excavator, or have exclusive control of the ~3km behind your target...

"Ad hoc" sighting in is excluded at the moment - but among other definitions that means you can't leave your target in place in between visits...

I'll be encouraging everyone i can to read and provide comment back on the draft when it gets released.

I can say with an extremely high degree of confidence that your submissions make a very big difference when it comes to the formulation of legislation. I implore you to submit your consideration if there is something that you have identified as being incorrect or poorly conceived. Every one of the submissions will be analysed and an analysis conducted to examine what needs to be addressed, amended, or included. EVERY submission will be analysed. Identify the section and subsection that you don't agree with and highlight why. Make sure it is within the scope of the Act/Bill, and write in a way that reflects the legislative process.

Also, if you see something that could be improved, make a recommendation. First, identify the section and appropriate subsection/clause, and then offer up your recommendation. Ask for an amendment or removal etc. It all gets taken into consideration. I'm telling you, ALL of it gets read and analysed. It's a real democratic process and one that every kiwi should truly be proud of.

Originally Posted by Daniel Kwon

I can say with an extremely high degree of confidence that your submissions make a very big difference when it comes to the formulation of legislation. I implore you to submit your consideration if there is something that you have identified as being incorrect or poorly conceived. Every one of the submissions will be analysed and an analysis conducted to examine what needs to be addressed, amended, or included. EVERY submission will be analysed. Identify the section and subsection that you don't agree with and highlight why. Make sure it is within the scope of the Act/Bill, and write in a way that reflects the legislative process.

Also, if you see something that could be improved, make a recommendation. First, identify the section and appropriate subsection/clause, and then offer up your recommendation. Ask for an amendment or removal etc. It all gets taken into consideration. I'm telling you, ALL of it gets read and analysed. It's a real democratic process and one that every kiwi should truly be proud of.

like they did with the semi auto changes?

Originally Posted by ilikepie

like they did with the semi auto changes?

Of course, can't you read 1000 submissions an hour? Peasant, the glorious government can.

Not even this submission to Tranche 2 made any difference.
Why bother.