Thread: NZDA requires FAL number

Originally Posted by Shearer

So if you don't want to supply your FAL will you be refused membership?

I have no idea, its above my pay grade, but I doubt it

Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg

I have no idea, its above my pay grade, but I doubt it

But here is what the Police say

Approved clubs must keep certain records.

All clubs — membership
A club must keep an up-to-date a list of current
members and the licence numbers of the members
who hold a firearms licence.

It can be found here, page 11

https://www.firearmssafetyauthority....ub-Guide-2.pdf

Well my little gun club asked for license numbers over 12 months ago. Possibly to do with ammo sales I think.
Now that has disbanded and we are co-joining another club we have to for that as well

Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg

But here is what the Police say

Approved clubs must keep certain records.

All clubs — membership
A club must keep an up-to-date a list of current
members and the licence numbers of the members
who hold a firearms licence.

It can be found here, page 11

https://www.firearmssafetyauthority....ub-Guide-2.pdf

The irony is that this is exactly the sort of BS the NZDA (as a hunter advocacy group) should be standing up against.

Originally Posted by Shearer

The irony is that this is exactly the sort of BS the NZDA (as a hunter advocacy group) should be standing up against.

You assume they didn't ?

The Clubs and Ranges law has many requirements that Shooting Clubs are now required to comply with.

All clubs that hold organised shooting events are required to register as Shooting Clubs
If they sent in their application before June 24 they can continue operating - if they filed the application form after the 24th then you can't operate till after your club is approved.

If you are registered as a shooting club the law requires all shooting clubs to record the firearms license number of the members who have a license.
All range operators are required to record all the Range Officers/Duty Officers firearms license numbers and record the details of all who attend shooting events
All those participating in a shooting event will have their details recorded.

There is nothing in the law that requires licensed firearms to provide their license details to the shooting club, so anybody supplying their license details is doing so willingly.
Those who have a firearms license are concerned about the security of their personal details in the registry, now their details will be stored in several places, the registry, the National Association (NZDA, TSNZ etc) plus the shooting club they are a member of ie Branch

My understanding of the law is that the only person that you HAVE to produce your firearms license to is the Police if they request it

How secure are all these databases going to be and who is going to have access to the details?

Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg

You assume they didn't ?

Based on the emails I receive from NZDA it seems like they don’t want to rock the boat too much. Compliance this, compliance that - and don’t forget to register your firearms too! They aren’t exactly a bastion of resistance to the assault on private firearm ownership. I suppose their primary concern is hunting anyway.

Originally Posted by 19Badger

The Clubs and Ranges law has many requirements that Shooting Clubs are now required to comply with.


If you are registered as a shooting club the law requires all shooting clubs to record the firearms license number of the members who have a license.


There is nothing in the law that requires licensed firearms to provide their license details to the shooting club, so anybody supplying their license details is doing so willingly.

That is a little contradictory ?

I just spent the best part of 3 days doing the paperwork associated with keeping our club legal and recertification of the range. Reading these posts makes me doubt the mental capacity of some shooters (and their consequent fitness to hold an FAL) and wonder why I bothered . . . . For Christ's sake, and for the future of our sport please at least endeavor to try and read the stuff put out by authoritive sources and try and remember that just because you hold an opinion, that does not make it a fact.

Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg

That is a little contradictory ?

Nope, the law requires clubs to store this data, but there is nothing in the law that requires the license holder to provide it to the clubs, so if you do provide your firearms license number you do so of your own volition.

If you think the license holder has to provide the details, please show me in the law where it says that, also what can the club do if the firearms license holder doesn't provide the information?
I don't see anything in the NZDA constitution that says member have to provide it or what the NZDA can do if they don't provide the information.

Where is the privacy statement/declaration about where your data will be stored, who will have access, how it will be used, what happens in the event of a privacy breach.

https://www.privacy.org.nz/responsib...%20information.

The NZDA at National Office are not mugs. They are doing what they are required to do, and will be very aware that there wont be total compliance.

Originally Posted by 19Badger

Nope, the law requires clubs to store this data, but there is nothing in the law that requires the license holder to provide it to the clubs

Check the bit about opinions versus facts.

As a person who has stuck their neck out to ensure other people still have opportunities to shoot, I'd be advising the committee not to accept shooters onto the range who arrive with firearms (implying they have a FAL) and who don't supply FAL details - itll go in a book or on an application form. For some reason (try commonsense or maybe the old range manuals) our club has recorded the FAL details of club members and casual users for years - and many clubs have operated the same protocol.

If you take the time to read the new range manual you'll see clubs are only bound to record the Officer on Duty (ROs in the old parlance) and not necessarily all shooters but I'd say most clubs will continue to do so.

They could just have a tick box on the form that states you have a licence and the expiry date.

Originally Posted by Tentman

Check the bit about opinions versus facts.

As a person who has stuck their neck out to ensure other people still have opportunities to shoot, I'd be advising the committee not to accept shooters onto the range who arrive with firearms (implying they have a FAL) and who don't supply FAL details - itll go in a book or on an application form. For some reason (try commonsense or maybe the old range manuals) our club has recorded the FAL details of club members and casual users for years - and many clubs have operated the same protocol.

If you take the time to read the new range manual you'll see clubs are only bound to record the Officer on Duty (ROs in the old parlance) and not necessarily all shooters but I'd say most clubs will continue to do so.

Not all ranges have operated in that way, and there was nothing in the law that required they operate that way.
Consequences of operating that way - a while ago a club had their range book stolen, so criminals ended up with the information of firearms owners.

As has been highlighted by organisations and firearms owners, these laws will lead to a lot more people sighting in/shooting on ad hock ranges which will make the public less safe

Originally Posted by Fatberg

Based on the emails I receive from NZDA it seems like they don’t want to rock the boat too much. Compliance this, compliance that - and don’t forget to register your firearms too! They aren’t exactly a bastion of resistance to the assault on private firearm ownership. I suppose their primary concern is hunting anyway.

Sorry but that’s not true. They do far more advocacy for shooters than any group that represents shooters. Their office is located across from parliament for a reason

Maybe you are confusing them with PNZ?