Thread: NZDA requires FAL number

Originally Posted by Tentman

Did you read the first line of the page link you posted? - the one about the Arms Act . . . Now read what GPM quoted from the Arms Act re land owner permission. Now tell me you are not committing an offense under the Arms Act. I agree the chances of getting caught are slim, but it's one cock up and there goes you FAL.

You can't just read the first line. If you aren't doing a. or b. then you aren't conmmiting an offence... Anyway our local sight in range is on doc land and marked with a doc sign so I'll continue to use it.

Originally Posted by Tentman

Did you read the first line of the page link you posted? - the one about the Arms Act . . . Now read what GPM quoted from the Arms Act re land owner permission. Now tell me you are not committing an offense under the Arms Act. I agree the chances of getting caught are slim, but it's one cock up and there goes you FAL.

Not to add confusion.....but if we need to ask land owner permission on public land who do we ask..... being public means it's ours doesn't it? So I ask myself?, I know it's managed by DOC but they are not the owners......or is it the govt in power at the time......

I'm getting really confused

Is there actually a law that states we can or can't or is it a whole lot of interpretation on all of the above

H

Sent from my SM-S911B using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by HNTMAD

Not to add confusion.....but if we need to ask land owner permission on public land who do we ask..... being public means it's ours doesn't it? So I ask myself?, I know it's managed by DOC but they are not the owners......or is it the govt in power at the time......

I'm getting really confused

Is there actually a law that states we can or can't or is it a whole lot of interpretation on all of the above

H

Sent from my SM-S911B using Tapatalk

Get a legal opinion from a qualified legal practitioner if need be or get info. in writing directly from DOC , forest company or whoever manages the area you wish to hunt. Don’t waste time listening to opinions on a forum. At times individuals express opinions on subjects they profess to be knowledgeable on when they clearly aren’t. The internet and google are a cnut for this problem.

Originally Posted by HNTMAD

Not to add confusion.....but if we need to ask land owner permission on public land who do we ask..... being public means it's ours doesn't it? So I ask myself?, I know it's managed by DOC but they are not the owners......or is it the govt in power at the time......

I'm getting really confused

Is there actually a law that states we can or can't or is it a whole lot of interpretation on all of the above

H

Sent from my SM-S911B using Tapatalk

It’s owned by the crown and administered by DOC on behalf of the crown. The crown having delegated to DOC the right to give permission to hunters to enter the land to hunt.

As hunters we are must obtain permission from the owner/administrator or both before hunting on any land other than that which we own and fully administrate, in which case permission is implied.

The permit process on the DOC website is literally a tick box excercise that allows hunters to seek and gain permission, and DOC to give that permission.
In this way the formalities are covered off.

Think of it like the bottom of the Mukamuka valley. It is owned by Wharekahu but the tramping and cycling public have free access. If someone wants to hunt there, permission can be sought from a guy who is an employee of Wharekahu, he does not own the land to my knowledge but he can give permission.


As for sighting in a rifle or target shooting on crown land administered by DOC, thus this thread has discussed two different factors
1. The actual legality
2. The chance of anyone knowing/pursuing prosecution.

It is important not to conflate the two as being the same even though they are linked.

Looking at 1. In isolation, while the permit does not explicitly state that target shooting within the permit area is verboten, neither does it say it is permitted. Clause 5 of the permit applies as it states;

‘No firearm shall be discharged:
In the vicinity of huts, tracks, campsites, road-ends or other public places.
Within 500m of a Great Walk Hut or track. See Great Walks
In a manner that endangers, frightens or annoys members of the public, or that endangers any property.’

Target shooting on DOC administered land, could be construed by a prosecution lawyer as breaching the above, which is also a breach of the arms act.
This is just my opinion, but I wouldn’t bet the contents of my safe that I am wrong.



Looking at 2.
This will vary depending where we are, it’s a bit like the age old question of a tree falling in the bush. But by the time you do enough to be sure that no one is around to hear you, it would have been easier to just drive to the local range. Where there is probably a bench to shoot off and frames to put targets on. And no concerns about other people in the area when you are trying to concentrate on putting crosshairs in the 10 ring.
When you consider the inconvenience and the hassle of setting up targets in the DOC administered crown land, the consideration of getting caught becomes pretty much moot.

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings All,
IT IS ILLEGAL. Comprehension does not seem to be strong today. As I stated in an earlier post Your permit allows you to enter with a rifle, hunt and kill game with some exceptions. It does allow you to sight in a rifle. The Range Manual give the conditions for casual sighting in not on a range first of which is the permission of the landowner for the activity which a hunting permit does not provide.
Please read this carefully and regards GPM.

Your saying its illegal but then you say It does allow you to sight in a rifle????

Ive been with people on doc land before and they have checked zero on rifle.

Nope. She seldom wears PJs let alone leave the house in them. Why is you shed full of that stuff . . . Is it any good?

You shouldn’t need an fal to be a member of any club or Association for example you may be under age and shooting under supervision but still want to belong to the club
In the case of nzda you may be a bow hunter with no FAl
But still want to be a member for benefits such as public liability insurance etc

If you show up to a range to shoot a firearm you’re license should be checked apon entry by the RSO or other range official
Which is the way they all do it to my knowledge all the events and clubs I attend check on registration for the range day/event at the same time you pay the registration fee

If you’re not licensed obviously they are going to ask who is supervising you and my local nzda range asks unlicensed people to wear a hi vis vest so the RSO is aware you are under supervision I don’t think this is too much of an ask

It’s a hunting permit, not a shooting permit.

1 & 3 on the standard conditions make it crystal clear.

If it was illegal why wouldn’t it be listed on the permit, next to the other activities that are not allowed? One could argue that part of hunting is checking your rifle is shooting correctly.

Originally Posted by Bush Basher

If it was illegal why wouldn’t it be listed on the permit, next to the other activities that are not allowed? One could argue that part of hunting is checking your rifle is shooting correctly.

They had to draw a line somewhere if not wanting to list every single indiscretion that isn’t allowed. Otherwise there would be much more paper to carry with more writing that wouldn’t be read. I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the omission is a legacy issue from a time when permit holders were credited with the posession of common sense, insight and a degree of judgement, when it was not considered necessary to explicitly state the fact.

Originally Posted by longshot

They had to draw a line somewhere if not wanting to list every single indiscretion that isn’t allowed. Otherwise there would be much more paper to carry with more writing that wouldn’t be read. I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the omission is a legacy issue from a time when permit holders were credited with the posession of common sense, insight and a degree of judgement, when it was not considered necessary to explicitly state the fact.

Conservation Act
Every person commits an offence against this Act who, knowingly and without a permit in that behalf issued under subsection (1) or section 26ZZH, or knowingly and otherwise than in compliance with any conditions subject to which such a permit has been issued,—
(a)
discharges any hunting weapon on, into, or over any conservation area;

so the permit is for hunting not target shooting
this may be the most relavant

Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

Conservation Act
Every person commits an offence against this Act who, knowingly and without a permit in that behalf issued under subsection (1) or section 26ZZH, or knowingly and otherwise than in compliance with any conditions subject to which such a permit has been issued,—
(a)
discharges any hunting weapon on, into, or over any conservation area;

so the permit is for hunting not target shooting
this may be the most relavant

Those rules appear to be for a conservation area, if you read the rest of the rules, no killing of any animal. ( ironically includes poisoning)

Every person commits an offence against this Act who, knowingly and without a permit in that behalf issued under subsection (1) or section 26ZZH, or knowingly and otherwise than in compliance with any conditions subject to which such a permit has been issued,—
(a)
discharges any hunting weapon on, into, or over any conservation area; or
(b)
molests or pursues any animal in a conservation area; or
(c)
captures, kills, poisons, tranquillises, traps, or immobilises by any means, any animal in a conservation area; or
(d)
has in possession in any conservation area any animal or animal product; or
(e)
whether or not any animal or animal product is taken, takes or uses in or over any conservation area any aircraft, dog, hunting weapon, net, trap, poison, ship, snare, or vehicle, for the purpose of molesting, pursuing, capturing, killing, poisoning, tranquillising, trapping, or immobilising, by any means, any animal; or
(f)
takes any animal product in a conservation area; or
(g)
whether or not any animal product is taken, takes or uses in or over any conservation area any aircraft, dog, net, trap, ship, or vehicle, for the purpose of taking any animal product; or
(h)
enters any conservation area with a hunting weapon, net, trap, or snare, or with poison; or
(i)
sets any net, trap, or snare, on any conservation area; or
(j)
allows any animal to molest, pursue, or kill, any animal, in a conservation area.

Originally Posted by Bush Basher

Those rules appear to be for a conservation area, if you read the rest of the rules, no killing of any animal. ( ironically includes poisoning)

Every person commits an offence against this Act who, knowingly and without a permit in that behalf issued under subsection (1) or section 26ZZH, or knowingly and otherwise than in compliance with any conditions subject to which such a permit has been issued,—
(a)
discharges any hunting weapon on, into, or over any conservation area; or
(b)
molests or pursues any animal in a conservation area; or
(c)
captures, kills, poisons, tranquillises, traps, or immobilises by any means, any animal in a conservation area; or
(d)
has in possession in any conservation area any animal or animal product; or
(e)
whether or not any animal or animal product is taken, takes or uses in or over any conservation area any aircraft, dog, hunting weapon, net, trap, poison, ship, snare, or vehicle, for the purpose of molesting, pursuing, capturing, killing, poisoning, tranquillising, trapping, or immobilising, by any means, any animal; or
(f)
takes any animal product in a conservation area; or
(g)
whether or not any animal product is taken, takes or uses in or over any conservation area any aircraft, dog, net, trap, ship, or vehicle, for the purpose of taking any animal product; or
(h)
enters any conservation area with a hunting weapon, net, trap, or snare, or with poison; or
(i)
sets any net, trap, or snare, on any conservation area; or
(j)
allows any animal to molest, pursue, or kill, any animal, in a conservation area.

what this section is saying is you can do those things mentioned if you have a permit - if no permit it is then illegal under the act - it looks to me like to use the DOC Range one needs a open permit - DOC are then giving you permission and have issued a notice ( pictured ) which will form part of that permission i.e the conditions of use -but have no doubt it is specific to that range - these sections of Conservation act above cover all of DOC as many older acts are bound to it

Furthermore to my last post I have just been talking to security firm which manages Onefortyone forest hunting. Their opinion is that as long as firing zones and safety considered and common sense exercised they have no issue with checking where your rifles shooting. Just not full on load development etc. Like I’ve stated previously check with local management. Don’t make it hard for yourself and don’t be so fecking paranoid, not all authorities are out to get you even though it feels like it at times. I’ve found it easier to work in with them ( management, authorities ), as I have to on a weekly basis.