Thread: Shooting ranges

Originally Posted by kimjon

I'm not a huge fan of covered ranges, the percussion off of tin roofs puts me off. Also I do all my shooting prone if given a chioice as this is how i like to sight in my rifles, so the option to lie down and not have to use a bench would be great.

Kj

I hear you on the roof issue, but we have no choice for the rifle ranges..... The pistol ranges however....

Hopefully both the 100 and 200 will be able to be shot prone, bench and standing, however due to the baffling requirements, 1 or both may be limited to 2 of the postions. Having all 3 opens up the angles and becomes a bit of pain. However design not fully done yet on that bit, so fingers crossed all 3 are doable. The more info from other ranges the better for us in this regard.

Thanks heaps for all that!

Some bloody great ideas that we hadnt thought of.

Would be really keen on the offer on coming and having a look. I come to wellington a bit, so might hit you up.
I'll send a pm with my contact details..

Originally Posted by 308

Re indoor building vs fumes - if you want a building with common access to 100 and 200 ranges I would recommend on building with two doors to the outside which holds two ranges
Exterior style shooting area stops fume extraction problems. Inside your nice warm social area (that you build later) you have soundproof doors to both ranges. Range officer can lock the doors from the range side so no-one can go into the bays when shooters are forward. Social people can do social things without gunfire noise.
This is how we do it at Wgtn Pistol Club so pm me if you wanna come take a look if you are up this way or I can send some pics through
The range shooting bays are covered from rain and the back wall is the clubhouse - you could do the same with a short corridor to the clubhouse later if you want.This would cut down noise even more and give two independently lockable doors if wanted - a bit fancy though
Also I worked on the Police range at Training College in Porirua which is fully enclosed and they designed it so that the airflow moved from the shooter's end of the building to the target end in a "plug flow"* fashion so as to blow fumes downrange from the shooters and made all shooters use frangible rounds to avoid ricochets - not workable for civilians IMO

Re baffles the problem is getting heavy steel beams long enough, cheap enough.
Vertical steel posts or hardwood power poles holding up tanalised retaining wall T&G timber about 1500 high with 6mm plate steel tek-screwed to the back of each baffle. The expensive bit is steel beams running above each baffle with threaded rods through the guts to pick up the inevitable sag in the guts - balance the beams on top then weld some "keeper" legs down from each end to hold them onto the top of each pole
Poles need sacrificial 200x50s pref in double layers on their fronts so that their legs don't get shot out. If you need baffles to go really wide without spending $$$ on steel, perhaps your forward baffle could have a leg down for support say 10-15m forward of the shooting bays and have a wall out towards that support - our walls are open-topped wooden posts faced with timber and filled with peametal - pour more peametal in from time to time - they work ok
Presumably you guys are sourcing farm building barn rafters and whatnot secondhand?

A design note - once your overhead baffles are in place you can't move the point of shooting forward later without big $$

As for ground baffles we have two types that work well - 100x100 posts with facing boards each side and filled with peametal
and
sandbags with soil sprinkled over and ivy growing over and holding together

Both types are in a"finger" type array where they come out from each side at around knee high and overlap so that the shooter patching their target walks forward in a zigzag fashion if that makes sense

A note that may help - the wooden ground baffles can be just sitting on the ground with steel rods driven through to hold them up. This means that if you need to get a digger or something large through then you can lever the baffle up with a few people and crowbars, the peametal falls out so you can then drag it out of the way and get access then drag it back, hammer in new rods to prop it up and re-fill with peametal - just an idea
Ideally you'll have full access to the target ends but the portability factor can help when doing overhead baffle maintenance

Cheers


*fluid dynamics

I'd start by thinking of the possible uses people might make of the range:
sight in
accuracy testing
trajectory testing
technique practice
competition

Intermediate ranges
A big wide target at 25m would also be useful for people starting a sight in session.
A 50m butts or target frame half way down the 100 side would be very good, for those sighting in / testing .22RF.
I don't know, would a small target at 150m be useful for .17HMR and similar ?

Time between going forward to targets:
(The 5 minutes used at TECT is a bit short for me)
15 min sessions sound about right to me.
It's enough to fire a couple of 5 shot groups with some frigging around adjusting sights, torquing up and what not
or else long enough to do a slow group allowing the barrel to cool.
or enough to shoot a couple of positions practice.

It sounds like you are planning something like the European ranges , ie the " no escape " bullet traps , over head , ie the contrete beams covered with wood to trap & stop bullets escaping veritically .
If thats what you are after , go to Litton Army camp & have a GOOD look at their 300m range , was designed by HK Germany I think , just bear in mind that the Litton one is was designed for automated targets , so the room in the butts is very small due to the fact its meant to have auto targets .
DUE to the Army running out of money , they never got the auto targets set up .

Its also set to do the Army AWQ on , so if you go and see the range , you need to have a copy of the AWQ type of fire , I think its built , so you can be prone or standing from 300m down , its OK to fire ,

Or do a search of European ranges .

Some non-shooting stuff:

* Decent ablution facilities would probably endear yourself to the female shooters in particular.
* A vending machine for snacks and stuff? Ear muffs that can be hired (people often forget these).
* Maybe a couple firearms that can be hired too?
* First aid kits

Really hope that this range is somewhere accessible for me.

We (NZDA BOP Branch) have just built a new 300m rifle range at the TECT All Terrain Park in Tauranga.

This range is a NO DANGER AREA, single firing point, cross baffle range, and as such all shots fired within the cone of fire must be captured by the range construction in such a way that there can be no ricochet induced. Shots fired with unacceptable firer deviation within a reasonable safety factor outside the cone of fire will still be trapped by the topography and not leave the range danger area.
*
The cone of fire is defined as that which will contain all but 1 shot in 1 million. For this range the cone of fire has been assessed as follows: for standing (off-hand) shooting — 40mils (cf. JSP403 for military shooting for which the cone of fire is 40mils); for kneeling or sitting — 20mils; for prone (no sling) — 15mils (cf. NRANZ cone of fire at 300yards of less than 3.5mils — sling supported)

Entrapment of projectiles is achieved by the use of double rows of plastic drums filled with shredded tyres which have been demonstrated to stop any complying projectile within less than the diameter of the drum.

Shots outside the cone of fire will be stopped by the natural topography, modified by earthworks as required, to ensure no ricochet will be induced.

There is no point outside the range danger area (defined by the boundary fence of the range) within line of sight of the firing point where a negligently fired shot could endanger people outside the range danger area.

What is critical to this ranges safe use is the control of shooter and rifle so we have very strict range standing orders that require the rifle to be on the shoulder, pointing at the target, before a round is chambered. We also require all shooters to attend three inductions before they can shoot on the range by themselves to drum these safety protocols in.

I can send you a long section showing the safety template if you like.

We have been operating since 2012 and the 200L plastic drums filled with shredded rubber have worked very well as the bullet catchers and we have only had to replace 5-6 of then to date. The pistol guys have tried these plastic drums but found they don’t handle the large calibre slow lead projectiles very well, but we have found them extremely durable with the smaller calibre high velocity centre fires.

Here is a link to our web page that has some construction photos.

Range - New Zealand Deerstalkers Association (Bay of Plenty Branch) Inc.

I must update this with some more recent photos as we have now closed in the firing line and have just lined the inside with acoustic sound absorbing material.

The firing structure is 26m long x 6m wide with 15 shooting positions at 1.6m centres, which works well.

We have fixed target lines at 25, 50, 100,100 and 300m. The target positions are at 1.2m centres, due to constraints with the original earthworks, which means the target sight lines at each position are not in line, which is a bit annoying. Long term we will extend the target lines to set the targets out at 1.6m centres to match the shooting positions.

We have 10 steel framed, conc filled, conc top shooting benches that weigh around 300kg each and a couple of pallet jacks to move then around. There are rock solid, but easily moved.

Were now looking at setting up a permanent installation at the 200m and 300m target lines for 6 of the Bulleye target cameras as these can be set up with solar power packs and wifi so that you can view your target on a smart phone or tablet.

Hope this info is of help

Cheers

Grant

Originally Posted by NZVarminter

Entrapment of projectiles is achieved by the use of double rows of plastic drums filled with shredded tyres which have been demonstrated to stop any complying projectile within less than the diameter of the drum.
.
.
.

We have been operating since 2012 and the 200L plastic drums filled with shredded rubber have worked very well as the bullet catchers and we have only had to replace 5-6 of then to date. The pistol guys have tried these plastic drums but found they don’t handle the large calibre slow lead projectiles very well, but we have found them extremely durable with the smaller calibre high velocity centre fires.

You need to be very careful when using shredded rubber media in a backstop - over time the dust that forms from the projectiles impacting the media forms a dangerously flammable media, it's how we almost lost our range (NZHA ChCh) to a large fire that destroyed our 100m range. Originally we thought it was people using tracer rounds, but it turns out it was just rubber dust with hot lead to set it off.

The problem of using drums is that projectile can exit the drum at a different angle to the one it entered at . We also for the 100/200 mtr range just use the bags the rubber comes in as they are to a degree self sealing .

Originally Posted by Beaker

No projectile can have the possibility of leaving the range area. Basically if your at the firing point, you cant see blue sky, via a combination of roof height of firing line, target backstop height, wing wall berms from target to firing line and crossing 'baffles' or horizontal beams across the range at various heights and distances between firing line and target (This bit for ours still needs to be worked out - a bit of a pain, as easy to do with heaps of baffles - but bloody expensive per each. Hopefully some bright idea will come from some where, to reduce the amount.... )

Have a chat to these guys or pop up from where you are and have a look on any Tuesday evening. The benches are fro standing shooting and it is a full no escape range with open air over the range itself. The no escape is achieved with heavy Timber beams across the range at intervals so from the firing position they appear to overlap thus any projectile discharged from the firing line are kept within the range.

Home page
New Zealand Handloaders Association | Proudly established to promote amateur shooting for the recreation of its members and the general public.

The firing line
Rifle Range | New Zealand Handloaders Association

Google earth Note the bands across the range at intervals. The steel (twin) ones are girders hold the movable bullet traps at different distances, the grey are the heavy timber beams
https://www.google.com/maps/place/59...d7b41b!6m1!1e1



I am not saying you should copy what NZHA have done, but you should get some ideas as to what works and what can be done differently. They have a pretty good set up in my view.

Oh and to the left in the google earth is the Deerstalkers range

Here a simulated view of what is going to be the biggest shooting complex in france in about 2 years time.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eUEkVx65AJ4

Enjoy.

Originally Posted by Beaker

No projectile can have the possibility of leaving the range area. Basically if your at the firing point, you cant see blue sky, via a combination of roof height of firing line, target backstop height, wing wall berms from target to firing line and crossing 'baffles' or horizontal beams across the range at various heights and distances between firing line and target (This bit for ours still needs to be worked out - a bit of a pain, as easy to do with heaps of baffles - but bloody expensive per each. Hopefully some bright idea will come from some where, to reduce the amount.... )

Ive often wondered if this can feasible be achieved by using concrete pipes a wee way forward from muzzle say 6 feet to get muzzle blast room to spread out. if pipes are say 600mm across you can work angles to make it impossible for projectile to stray once its gone into pipe ...food for thought maybe????

You are totally correct and can (has) been done. Its one of the ideas that we are playing with. not to sure on how it would go down with people though. Got heaps of ideas now for the baffleing, so now its coming to sorting where they would go, and pricing each of them.....

Infact, just this morning, the decision was made to make a shooting "tube" basically 100m of concrete culvert pipe, and enclosed ends. For a wind free range, infact just like a indoor range with out the big building.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Ive often wondered if this can feasible be achieved by using concrete pipes a wee way forward from muzzle say 6 feet to get muzzle blast room to spread out. if pipes are say 600mm across you can work angles to make it impossible for projectile to stray once its gone into pipe ...food for thought maybe????

So, first dirt is getting moved in the morning! Yippeee

Dont have all the design done, or funding in place yet, but somebody wants to move a few thousand m3 of dirt, and give it to us, so how can you say no.

Atleast 98% of the main dirt works design is done........

Thanks for that!

Looks like a great place - alot of earthworks!
Would be really keen of seeing the cross sections, as thats where i'm at with the baffle designs.

Cheers

Originally Posted by NZVarminter

We (NZDA BOP Branch) have just built a new 300m rifle range at the TECT All Terrain Park in Tauranga.

This range is a NO DANGER AREA, single firing point, cross baffle range, and as such all shots fired within the cone of fire must be captured by the range construction in such a way that there can be no ricochet induced. Shots fired with unacceptable firer deviation within a reasonable safety factor outside the cone of fire will still be trapped by the topography and not leave the range danger area.
*
The cone of fire is defined as that which will contain all but 1 shot in 1 million. For this range the cone of fire has been assessed as follows: for standing (off-hand) shooting — 40mils (cf. JSP403 for military shooting for which the cone of fire is 40mils); for kneeling or sitting — 20mils; for prone (no sling) — 15mils (cf. NRANZ cone of fire at 300yards of less than 3.5mils — sling supported)

Entrapment of projectiles is achieved by the use of double rows of plastic drums filled with shredded tyres which have been demonstrated to stop any complying projectile within less than the diameter of the drum.

Shots outside the cone of fire will be stopped by the natural topography, modified by earthworks as required, to ensure no ricochet will be induced.

There is no point outside the range danger area (defined by the boundary fence of the range) within line of sight of the firing point where a negligently fired shot could endanger people outside the range danger area.

What is critical to this ranges safe use is the control of shooter and rifle so we have very strict range standing orders that require the rifle to be on the shoulder, pointing at the target, before a round is chambered. We also require all shooters to attend three inductions before they can shoot on the range by themselves to drum these safety protocols in.

I can send you a long section showing the safety template if you like.

We have been operating since 2012 and the 200L plastic drums filled with shredded rubber have worked very well as the bullet catchers and we have only had to replace 5-6 of then to date. The pistol guys have tried these plastic drums but found they don’t handle the large calibre slow lead projectiles very well, but we have found them extremely durable with the smaller calibre high velocity centre fires.

Here is a link to our web page that has some construction photos.

Range - New Zealand Deerstalkers Association (Bay of Plenty Branch) Inc.

I must update this with some more recent photos as we have now closed in the firing line and have just lined the inside with acoustic sound absorbing material.

The firing structure is 26m long x 6m wide with 15 shooting positions at 1.6m centres, which works well.

We have fixed target lines at 25, 50, 100,100 and 300m. The target positions are at 1.2m centres, due to constraints with the original earthworks, which means the target sight lines at each position are not in line, which is a bit annoying. Long term we will extend the target lines to set the targets out at 1.6m centres to match the shooting positions.

We have 10 steel framed, conc filled, conc top shooting benches that weigh around 300kg each and a couple of pallet jacks to move then around. There are rock solid, but easily moved.

Were now looking at setting up a permanent installation at the 200m and 300m target lines for 6 of the Bulleye target cameras as these can be set up with solar power packs and wifi so that you can view your target on a smart phone or tablet.

Hope this info is of help

Cheers

Grant