Thread: Shooting ranges

Originally Posted by Beaker

No projectile can have the possibility of leaving the range area. Basically if your at the firing point, you cant see blue sky, via a combination of roof height of firing line, target backstop height, wing wall berms from target to firing line and crossing 'baffles' or horizontal beams across the range at various heights and distances between firing line and target (This bit for ours still needs to be worked out - a bit of a pain, as easy to do with heaps of baffles - but bloody expensive per each. Hopefully some bright idea will come from some where, to reduce the amount.... )

Ive often wondered if this can feasible be achieved by using concrete pipes a wee way forward from muzzle say 6 feet to get muzzle blast room to spread out. if pipes are say 600mm across you can work angles to make it impossible for projectile to stray once its gone into pipe ...food for thought maybe????

You are totally correct and can (has) been done. Its one of the ideas that we are playing with. not to sure on how it would go down with people though. Got heaps of ideas now for the baffleing, so now its coming to sorting where they would go, and pricing each of them.....

Infact, just this morning, the decision was made to make a shooting "tube" basically 100m of concrete culvert pipe, and enclosed ends. For a wind free range, infact just like a indoor range with out the big building.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Ive often wondered if this can feasible be achieved by using concrete pipes a wee way forward from muzzle say 6 feet to get muzzle blast room to spread out. if pipes are say 600mm across you can work angles to make it impossible for projectile to stray once its gone into pipe ...food for thought maybe????

So, first dirt is getting moved in the morning! Yippeee

Dont have all the design done, or funding in place yet, but somebody wants to move a few thousand m3 of dirt, and give it to us, so how can you say no.

Atleast 98% of the main dirt works design is done........

Sounds like a bit of thought has gone in to it, nice work.

Rifle targets - are you running competition shooting only, or is it available for paid members to rock in and shoot. If so, don't worry about targets. Shooters would want their own for plinking or sighting, competition - well there's so many types should leave it to comp organisers to fulfill I reckon and the cost is zero. Target frames would be an ongoing cost, so many shooters couldn't hit the floor if they tried to shoot, but somehow are able to put a bullet in a small target frame with ease !

Don't forget there's simple/cheap options for CCTV these days, letting it run 24/7 and protecting the investment. APC have been talking about it because Steve W is mightily pissed off some shooters are setting up steel/targets in a dangerous manner (probably through ignorance rather than willfully).

Indoor small bore - ventilation and ceiling height are the biggest challenges. Howick in Auckland has a good indoor setup with concrete, Waitakere not so as it's an older wooden shed/building so people can't shoot standing up while in the upper bays, which negates any 4P shooters...

Baffles, there's loads of video on YT from Russia IPSC, most of their stuff is shot indoors, might help ?

One other thing, loads of picnic type benches everywhere, just so people have the chance to sit down somewhere at some stage.

Originally Posted by Kscott

Sounds like a bit of thought has gone in to it, nice work.

Rifle targets - are you running competition shooting only, or is it available for paid members to rock in and shoot. If so, don't worry about targets. Shooters would want their own for plinking or sighting, competition - well there's so many types should leave it to comp organisers to fulfill I reckon and the cost is zero. Target frames would be an ongoing cost, so many shooters couldn't hit the floor if they tried to shoot, but somehow are able to put a bullet in a small target frame with ease !

Don't forget there's simple/cheap options for CCTV these days, letting it run 24/7 and protecting the investment. APC have been talking about it because Steve W is mightily pissed off some shooters are setting up steel/targets in a dangerous manner (probably through ignorance rather than willfully).

Indoor small bore - ventilation and ceiling height are the biggest challenges. Howick in Auckland has a good indoor setup with concrete, Waitakere not so as it's an older wooden shed/building so people can't shoot standing up while in the upper bays, which negates any 4P shooters...

Baffles, there's loads of video on YT from Russia IPSC, most of their stuff is shot indoors, might help ?

One other thing, loads of picnic type benches everywhere, just so people have the chance to sit down somewhere at some stage.

Yes on the CTV - there are some real idiots around, but hopefully a bit of a deterrent, and if not, hopefully we can identify them

The indoor range is just a block on the plan at the moment - basically to much to do by to few people, and the money side as well. So sort of in phase 2 for that. All due to your points mentioned really.

Thanks for the tip on the Russian stuff, will have a poke around and see if we can convert the tech to out side open air baffles.

Also a good reminder for the tables - something that has not been mentioned.

If totally covered in mounds consider fume extraction a must for when shooting centre fire. The East Anakie rifle range at Geelong as an example is one of the most modern around with full electronics, single point shooting (shooter stay put) no matter the range, air con/fume extraction. Electronic targets are the way to go otherwise walls need to be built beside the individual ranges to allow people to go forward without closing the whole complex. Again, electronic targets a must. Enclosed tunnel would be nice.

Originally Posted by zimmer

If totally covered in mounds consider fume extraction a must for when shooting centre fire. The East Anakie rifle range at Geelong as an example is one of the most modern around with full electronics, single point shooting (shooter stay put) no matter the range, air con/fume extraction. Electronic targets are the way to go otherwise walls need to be built beside the individual ranges to allow people to go forward without closing the whole complex. Again, electronic targets a must. Enclosed tunnel would be nice.

I like a lot of that!!!
How do they get on with brakes and big cals?

I'm not a huge fan of covered ranges, the percussion off of tin roofs puts me off. Also I do all my shooting prone if given a chioice as this is how i like to sight in my rifles, so the option to lie down and not have to use a bench would be great.

Kj

Originally Posted by kimjon

I'm not a huge fan of covered ranges, the percussion off of tin roofs puts me off. Also I do all my shooting prone if given a chioice as this is how i like to sight in my rifles, so the option to lie down and not have to use a bench would be great.

Kj

I hear you on the roof issue, but we have no choice for the rifle ranges..... The pistol ranges however....

Hopefully both the 100 and 200 will be able to be shot prone, bench and standing, however due to the baffling requirements, 1 or both may be limited to 2 of the postions. Having all 3 opens up the angles and becomes a bit of pain. However design not fully done yet on that bit, so fingers crossed all 3 are doable. The more info from other ranges the better for us in this regard.

Re indoor building vs fumes - if you want a building with common access to 100 and 200 ranges I would recommend on building with two doors to the outside which holds two ranges
Exterior style shooting area stops fume extraction problems. Inside your nice warm social area (that you build later) you have soundproof doors to both ranges. Range officer can lock the doors from the range side so no-one can go into the bays when shooters are forward. Social people can do social things without gunfire noise.
This is how we do it at Wgtn Pistol Club so pm me if you wanna come take a look if you are up this way or I can send some pics through
The range shooting bays are covered from rain and the back wall is the clubhouse - you could do the same with a short corridor to the clubhouse later if you want.This would cut down noise even more and give two independently lockable doors if wanted - a bit fancy though
Also I worked on the Police range at Training College in Porirua which is fully enclosed and they designed it so that the airflow moved from the shooter's end of the building to the target end in a "plug flow"* fashion so as to blow fumes downrange from the shooters and made all shooters use frangible rounds to avoid ricochets - not workable for civilians IMO

Re baffles the problem is getting heavy steel beams long enough, cheap enough.
Vertical steel posts or hardwood power poles holding up tanalised retaining wall T&G timber about 1500 high with 6mm plate steel tek-screwed to the back of each baffle. The expensive bit is steel beams running above each baffle with threaded rods through the guts to pick up the inevitable sag in the guts - balance the beams on top then weld some "keeper" legs down from each end to hold them onto the top of each pole
Poles need sacrificial 200x50s pref in double layers on their fronts so that their legs don't get shot out. If you need baffles to go really wide without spending $$$ on steel, perhaps your forward baffle could have a leg down for support say 10-15m forward of the shooting bays and have a wall out towards that support - our walls are open-topped wooden posts faced with timber and filled with peametal - pour more peametal in from time to time - they work ok
Presumably you guys are sourcing farm building barn rafters and whatnot secondhand?

A design note - once your overhead baffles are in place you can't move the point of shooting forward later without big $$

As for ground baffles we have two types that work well - 100x100 posts with facing boards each side and filled with peametal
and
sandbags with soil sprinkled over and ivy growing over and holding together

Both types are in a"finger" type array where they come out from each side at around knee high and overlap so that the shooter patching their target walks forward in a zigzag fashion if that makes sense

A note that may help - the wooden ground baffles can be just sitting on the ground with steel rods driven through to hold them up. This means that if you need to get a digger or something large through then you can lever the baffle up with a few people and crowbars, the peametal falls out so you can then drag it out of the way and get access then drag it back, hammer in new rods to prop it up and re-fill with peametal - just an idea
Ideally you'll have full access to the target ends but the portability factor can help when doing overhead baffle maintenance

Cheers


*fluid dynamics

Thanks heaps for all that!

Some bloody great ideas that we hadnt thought of.

Would be really keen on the offer on coming and having a look. I come to wellington a bit, so might hit you up.
I'll send a pm with my contact details..

Originally Posted by 308

Re indoor building vs fumes - if you want a building with common access to 100 and 200 ranges I would recommend on building with two doors to the outside which holds two ranges
Exterior style shooting area stops fume extraction problems. Inside your nice warm social area (that you build later) you have soundproof doors to both ranges. Range officer can lock the doors from the range side so no-one can go into the bays when shooters are forward. Social people can do social things without gunfire noise.
This is how we do it at Wgtn Pistol Club so pm me if you wanna come take a look if you are up this way or I can send some pics through
The range shooting bays are covered from rain and the back wall is the clubhouse - you could do the same with a short corridor to the clubhouse later if you want.This would cut down noise even more and give two independently lockable doors if wanted - a bit fancy though
Also I worked on the Police range at Training College in Porirua which is fully enclosed and they designed it so that the airflow moved from the shooter's end of the building to the target end in a "plug flow"* fashion so as to blow fumes downrange from the shooters and made all shooters use frangible rounds to avoid ricochets - not workable for civilians IMO

Re baffles the problem is getting heavy steel beams long enough, cheap enough.
Vertical steel posts or hardwood power poles holding up tanalised retaining wall T&G timber about 1500 high with 6mm plate steel tek-screwed to the back of each baffle. The expensive bit is steel beams running above each baffle with threaded rods through the guts to pick up the inevitable sag in the guts - balance the beams on top then weld some "keeper" legs down from each end to hold them onto the top of each pole
Poles need sacrificial 200x50s pref in double layers on their fronts so that their legs don't get shot out. If you need baffles to go really wide without spending $$$ on steel, perhaps your forward baffle could have a leg down for support say 10-15m forward of the shooting bays and have a wall out towards that support - our walls are open-topped wooden posts faced with timber and filled with peametal - pour more peametal in from time to time - they work ok
Presumably you guys are sourcing farm building barn rafters and whatnot secondhand?

A design note - once your overhead baffles are in place you can't move the point of shooting forward later without big $$

As for ground baffles we have two types that work well - 100x100 posts with facing boards each side and filled with peametal
and
sandbags with soil sprinkled over and ivy growing over and holding together

Both types are in a"finger" type array where they come out from each side at around knee high and overlap so that the shooter patching their target walks forward in a zigzag fashion if that makes sense

A note that may help - the wooden ground baffles can be just sitting on the ground with steel rods driven through to hold them up. This means that if you need to get a digger or something large through then you can lever the baffle up with a few people and crowbars, the peametal falls out so you can then drag it out of the way and get access then drag it back, hammer in new rods to prop it up and re-fill with peametal - just an idea
Ideally you'll have full access to the target ends but the portability factor can help when doing overhead baffle maintenance

Cheers


*fluid dynamics

It sounds like you are planning something like the European ranges , ie the " no escape " bullet traps , over head , ie the contrete beams covered with wood to trap & stop bullets escaping veritically .
If thats what you are after , go to Litton Army camp & have a GOOD look at their 300m range , was designed by HK Germany I think , just bear in mind that the Litton one is was designed for automated targets , so the room in the butts is very small due to the fact its meant to have auto targets .
DUE to the Army running out of money , they never got the auto targets set up .

Its also set to do the Army AWQ on , so if you go and see the range , you need to have a copy of the AWQ type of fire , I think its built , so you can be prone or standing from 300m down , its OK to fire ,

Or do a search of European ranges .

Some non-shooting stuff:

* Decent ablution facilities would probably endear yourself to the female shooters in particular.
* A vending machine for snacks and stuff? Ear muffs that can be hired (people often forget these).
* Maybe a couple firearms that can be hired too?
* First aid kits

Really hope that this range is somewhere accessible for me.

The problem of using drums is that projectile can exit the drum at a different angle to the one it entered at . We also for the 100/200 mtr range just use the bags the rubber comes in as they are to a degree self sealing .

Oh and to the left in the google earth is the Deerstalkers range