Thread: Shooting: The sport all of us enjoy - do your part in preserving the ability to do so

Originally Posted by Sideshow

Sorry I'm late to the party, but what if you and your wife and kids shoot....so now do you have to have on each licence all the firearms in your safe. This is a cluster Fcuk!!
So your picking up a gun for your mate to meet later for duck shooting, you have to leave and he brings it back to your home so you can lock it away.....how are they going to enforce this

Enforce through punnishment,both in the form of prosecution if you are caught and in the fee for applying for each and every gun you want.
Well...only if they think that you need it.

"You have a 243,why do you need a 6.5?"

This is the system most of Europe deals with,I cannot even take my Girlfreinds Rifle to the Gunsmith,even though we own identical models in the same caliber.Forget hunting with it too.

The application fee will in the begining rather small,to encourage people to comply.Then it will creep ever slowly up to discourage people from owning large numbers of firearms.Which at the mid point the Police will limit new applicants to "X" number of Long arms in "Y" calibers only.Untill most people can only own a handful of firearms,that require procurement fees of hundreds of Dollars,anual security inspections,compulsory club membership,mental health asessment etc.

Don't think that will happen?

In the 1980's in the UK you could own a Brengun and shoot it at the Range.Now they are licencing Air Rifles in Scotland.

https://www.facebook.com/paulabennet...91649702567417

Get her Told !

Originally Posted by Ernie

https://www.facebook.com/paulabennet...91649702567417

Get her Told !

Yes Yes and "polite but firm" should be the tone keep the bad words out of you comments no matter how annoyed you may be, we need to portray a united front that we "regular everyday people" are not the "nutters" the police would have the general public believe we are !!

Originally Posted by Sideshow

Sorry I'm late to the party, but what if you and your wife and kids shoot....so now do you have to have on each licence all the firearms in your safe. This is a cluster Fcuk!!
[I]So your picking up a gun for your mate to meet later for duck shooting, you have to leave and he brings it back to your home so you can lock it away.....how are they going to enforce this[/I]

My question would be more along the lines of "Why in hell would they even want to put laws in the way of firearm safety?" Some of these permit to procure issues could have some very serious implications.

Teaching young / new shooters firearm safety and introducing them to firearms. How will supervision be addressed?

Originally Posted by timattalon

My question would be more along the lines of "Why in hell would they even want to put laws in the way of firearm safety?" Some of these permit to procure issues could have some very serious implications.

Teaching young / new shooters firearm safety and introducing them to firearms. How will supervision be addressed?

This was one of my first thoughts.... Only by 'qualified' instructors probably..

Originally Posted by Moutere

A submission rate of less than 0.174% of affected stake holders basically said we don't really care what happens, you MPs work it out.

Not entirely as some carefully worded fact based submissions were made from a number of organisations I'm a member of spelt it out quite clearly.

Numerous individual rants would not of changed a thing as they have followed whatever the Police "secret" submissions were.
This is neither Democratic to the process or followed the topic of enquiry and clearly shows attitude of senior Police to firearms licence holders and how they think.

Let's face it the findings are a complete and utter joke, it will now be played out in the elections. Vote NZ First seem to be only ones who clearly see what a crock this has been.
If they can get some reasonable representation at next election won't be a problem.

Originally Posted by timattalon

My question would be more along the lines of "Why in hell would they even want to put laws in the way of firearm safety?" Some of these permit to procure issues could have some very serious implications.

Teaching young / new shooters firearm safety and introducing them to firearms. How will supervision be addressed?

Through a minimum age of firearms useage.One can have a shotgun certificate in the UK at 14 years of age.At a fee of course.
14 is also the minimum age of leagle accompanyment on a big game hunt in Norway,un armed that is.18 is the age of leagle gun ownership here,which as you guessed comes after a course and a safe and fees for each indevidual firearm.Oh and yes an annual fee to the government in case you might want to think about hunting.

Politicians rarely come up with original ideas,modification of exisitng legislation is the norm,makes them look modern and compliant.

The more I read it, the more it seems clear that they are trying to weasel in Australian gun laws.

Remember also that as a firearm owner and outdoors person, you also fall under the portfolio of the Minister of Sport and Recreation. Shooting is a sport and a recreation. Once you have finished writing to the Minister of Police about this report,you may like to write to the Minister of Sport and Recreation (Jonathan Coleman) and ask what he intends to do to safeguard your sport and recreation from the suggestions in the report.

Paula Bennetts Facebook Reply: Update [please like so this appears near the top]: thank you all for your constructive comments and feedback, which we're compiling and is running to 420 comments over 49 pages (32,800 words).

With that in mind, you can continue to leave feedback here, or alternatively email me directly at p.bennett@ministers.govt.nz with something like "illegal firearms" in the subject line.

To clarify the process from here, the Government will now consider Parliament's report and must provide a written response by 6 July.

Thanks again for taking the time to state your position - we hear you, we are listening, and we want to work with you to ensure we get good outcomes from this.

Originally Posted by Krameranzac

Paula Bennetts Facebook Reply: Update [please like so this appears near the top]: thank you all for your constructive comments and feedback, which we're compiling and is running to 420 comments over 49 pages (32,800 words).

With that in mind, you can continue to leave feedback here, or alternatively email me directly at p.bennett@ministers.govt.nz with something like "illegal firearms" in the subject line.

To clarify the process from here, the Government will now consider Parliament's report and must provide a written response by 6 July.

Thanks again for taking the time to state your position - we hear you, we are listening, and we want to work with you to ensure we get good outcomes from this.

Thats almost a TUI ad....Yeeeah Right!!!

Originally Posted by Beavis

The more I read it, the more it seems clear that they are trying to weasel in Australian gun laws.

This is what you are up against.

COMMUNIQUÉ
Law, Crime and Community Safety Council, 27-28 April 2016
The first meeting of the Law, Crime and Community Safety Council for 2016 was held over 27 28 April 2016 in Queenstown, New Zealand. Ministers from New Zealand, the Commonwealth and each state and territory with portfolio responsibility for law and justice, police and emergency management were in attendance, as was a representative of the Australian Local Government Association. The meeting was chaired by the Hon Nikki Kaye MP, New Zealand Minister of Civil Defence the (Emergency Management Session), the Hon Judith Collins MP, New Zealand Minister (Law Enforcement session), the Hon Amy Adams MP, New Zealand Minister of Justice (Family Violence and Community Safety session) and the Commonwealth Minister for Justice and Minister Assisting the Prime Minister for Counter-Terrorism, the Hon Michael Keenan MP (Law Reform).
On 28 April 2016, the Hon Rene Hidding MP, Minister for Police and Emergency Management for Tasmania, asked Ministers to pause for a minute of silence to commemorate the passage of 20 years since the events of the Port Arthur tragedy – to reflect upon the ongoing suffering of those mourning the loss of the 35 people who died and the ongoing distress of many who survived appalling physical and mental trauma. Ministers noted that the tragedy shaped the Australian community’s notions of trauma, loss and suffering and how these events resulted in an extended community recovery program which became the benchmark for similar international events in following years. Ministers reflected on the decisive actions of all Australian jurisdictions in developing and achieving consensus on the historic National Firearms Agreement, which is the envy of many countries around the world and agreed to again restate all jurisdictions’ commitment to maintaining a national consensus on firearms as embodied in the National Firearms Agreement.
[Session 2: Law enforcement
National Firearms Agreement and other firearms measures
Ministers noted a number of measures to deal with illegal firearms and the ongoing work of senior officials to update the National Firearms Agreement.

I suggest you download your own copy of the National firearms agreement to see what you government ministers and police policy makers have bought into. Note it is the Australasian police ministers council. Not the Australian police ministers council.

AUSTRALASIAN POLICE MINISTERS’ COUNCIL
SPECIAL FIREARMS MEETING
CANBERRA
10 MAY 1996
RESOLUTIONS
2
1. Bans on Specific Types of Firearms
RESOLUTION
Council resolved:
(a) that all jurisdictions ban the sale, resale, transfer, ownership, possession, manufacture and
use of those firearms banned or proposed to be banned from import other than in the
exceptional circumstances listed in paragraph 1.2 of the Commonwealth proposal (see
below).
para 1.2 The only need for the use of an automatic or semi-automatic longarm would be:
 military;
 police or other government purposes; and
 occupational categories of shooters who have been licensed for a specified
purpose (eg extermination of feral animals).
(b) that all jurisdictions ban competitive shooting involving those firearms banned or proposed
to be banned from import.
Council agreed to implement its resolution via the following action plan:
1. All jurisdictions to ban the sale, resale, transfer, ownership, possession, manufacture and
use of those firearms banned or to be banned from import other than in the following
exceptional circumstances:
 military use;
 police or other government purposes; and
 occupational categories of shooters who have been licensed for a specified
purpose (eg extermination of feral animals).
2. All jurisdictions to ban competitive shooting involving those firearms banned or proposed
to be banned from import.
3. The Commonwealth to ban the importation of all semi-automatic self-loading and pump
action longarms, and all parts, including magazines, for such firearms, included in Licence
Category D, and control the importation of those firearms included in Licence Category C.
2. Effective Nationwide Registration of All Firearms
RESOLUTION
Council resolved:
(a) that New South Wales, Queensland and Tasmania immediately establish an integrated
licence and firearms registration system and that all other jurisdictions review their existing
registration systems to ensure that all systems are compatible.
(b) that these databases be linked through the National Exchange of Police Information (NEPI)
to ensure effective nationwide registration of all firearms.

Police and Government have complete contempt for your views. What you are seeing is merely the Govt's nodding dog technique. Your future is already decided.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...jQ?usp=sharing

Some numbers finally. It's almost comical how flimsy this fabricated "problem" is.






Pistols and MSSA make up 4.19% and 1.62% respectively of firearms seized with a 10 year period.





Rising crime?




OK.



Wait... what? LooL.

Originally Posted by stug

Here is a copy of a letter I will send to my local MP and other politicians. Any advice on what to add, delete. Feel free to use it yourself. The more people that ask questions the better

I am writing to you to find out your parties position on the recent Law and Order committees findings on the illegal possession of firearms.
I am trying to work out which party to vote for later this year and your responses will help me with my decision.
I am a licensed firearms owner and passionate hunter and shooter. I have read through the committees recommendations and have some concerns.
I welcome recommendation 10 to make it difficult for gang members and associates to have a firearms licence, however most of the other recommendations seem to have a large effect on law abiding firearms owners and will have a minimal effect on criminals.
Countries such as Canada have realised that a registry of licensed firearms is costly and impractical. The Law and Order committee also noted this, so why did they propose recommendation 11 to record serial numbers of firearms when doing security checks, and how will this reduce the illegal use of firearms? What will happen with the records of serial numbers? How secure will the information be and who will have access to the information. I have concerns that the information will just end up being a shopping list for criminals. Recent experience with Novopay and the Ministry of Social development having privacy concerns with their kiosks and the recent privacy breach with the providers of social services do not fill me with confidence.
Recommendation 5, the requirement to have all firearms sales require a permit to procure will create unnecessary expense and not prevent illegal sales. Criminals will not go to the police to get a permit when they buy or sell firearms. I live in the country and I have had to visit the local Police station four times before I was able to complete a mail order sale and purchase form.
The Police are already understaffed and under-resourced, their burglary resolution rate is evidence of this, so how is putting an layer of administration of firearms sales and security checks going to help this?
I am also concerned with the Law and Orders committees recommendation 14 to get the Police to review the A category security standards. The Police have recently changed their “rules” around B,C and E category security requirements. This has caused major confusion around the country about what is a complaint safe and what isn't. Different Police vettors are applying their own rules and causing confusion and extra expense to legitimate firearms owners.
At the moment buyers of ammunition need to have a firearms licence to purchase ammunition, and recommendation 1 proposes you must have a firearms licence to possess ammunition, so how is recommendation 3 going to prevent the illegal use of ammunition? Ammunition has no serial number or major identifying features. It is just going to add an extra layer of bureaucracy and expense to legitimate business owners and licensed firearms owners.
I am also appalled that recommendations 14, 15 and 16 were put under the heading “Criminal offending with firearms”. How is the changing of security requirements or giving the police power to inspect A category security a criminal offence? I am a licensed firearms owner with A category security, how does the Police coming to inspect my security make me a criminal?

In summary; how will recommendation 11 prevent the illegal use of firearms? How will recommendation 5 prevent the illegal sale of firearms? How will recommendation 3 prevent the illegal use of ammunition? How will recommendation 14 not result in extra expense to legitimate firearms owners and end up being a de-facto way of preventing firearms ownership by setting unreasonable requirements for security?

I look forward to your responses to my questions and hope they will help me decide who to vote for in the upcoming election.

Yours sincerely,

Please excuse the plagurism but I have used the bulk of your letter Stu and emailed my local MP, the PM, Bennet and leaders of all other parties just now.

Originally Posted by Ryan

https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...jQ?usp=sharing

Some numbers finally. It's almost comical how flimsy this fabricated "problem" is.

Attachment 66860

Attachment 66861


Pistols and MSSA make up 4.19% and 1.62% respectively of firearms seized with a 10 year period.



Attachment 66862

Rising crime?


Attachment 66863

OK.

Attachment 66864

Wait... what? LooL.

Oh. References to the NZHS forum. Obviously watching here.