Thread: Hello from Dan Chang in China

Micky is not wrong here Lars.

I had years of experience dealing with chinese manufacturers and their level of ethical practice is extremely low. This is experience - not mere opinion. They will seek/offer every advantage with New Zealand companies but break agreements the instant it suits. Eventually I set up a strong step by step conditional agreement and offered it to 5-6 leading manufacturers - an agreement which retained product control for my company, but none would accept it. In my field - company and market management - this is all to well known. Not xenophobia - fact unfortunately.

My family members work in major NZ corporates - and those corporates have also had very bad experience with unethical chinese counterparts. Had to sue them in court there - a very difficult and costly process. High risk dealing with any of them.

This present enquiry for torch information from china is likely not well received here because people know they broke production/marketing agreements with a NZ torch company. And they seek ongoing product advantage data while continuing unethical practice with NZ companies. Be aware - and this is a qualified and experienced professional opinion - every NZ marketing manager knows chinese ethical contract problems well.

Best advice - caveat emptor - let the buyer beware. One may have a well understood agreement/contract - but it means as much or as little as they choose. Legal remedies extremely difficult under chinese law, and cost prohibitive for most NZ companies.

Originally Posted by mudgripz

Micky is not wrong here Lars.

I had years of experience dealing with chinese manufacturers and their level of ethical practice is extremely low. This is experience - not mere opinion. They will seek/offer every advantage with New Zealand companies but break agreements the instant it suits. Eventually I set up a strong step by step conditional agreement and offered it to 5-6 leading manufacturers - an agreement which retained product control for my company, but none would accept it. In my field - company and market management - this is all to well known. Not xenophobia - fact unfortunately.

My family members work in major NZ corporates - and those corporates have also had very bad experience with unethical chinese counterparts. Had to sue them in court there - a very difficult and costly process. High risk dealing with any of them.

This present enquiry for torch information from china is likely not well received here because people know they broke production/marketing agreements with a NZ torch company. And they seek ongoing product advantage data while continuing unethical practice with NZ companies. Be aware - and this is a qualified and experienced professional opinion - every NZ marketing manager knows chinese ethical contract problems well.

I appreciate the context, and I make no excuses for any dishonorable business practices, crappy people do crappy things. And to be fair I never said these things can't/don't happen. My criticism is how individuals deal with individuals in this instance, maybe it's an instance of nuance being lost in text, and likely text as spoken, we all have our own unique vocabulary.

Thanks Lars

My Singaporean/Chinese lecturer at staff college warned our class about the Chinese ethos. In one phrase its "am I making more money than the next person?, and if not, how can I grab their money?" Their Government permits their version of Capitalism to flourish because it allows their citizens to throw themselves wholeheartedly at an endeavour that does not threaten the ruling Communist party.

My sister has felt in the first person the Chinese hand of gratitude: Had an entire Chinese factory making product for their business. To cement the relationship they flew the factory managers' entire family over here, then sponsored and paid for their sole child (a son) to attend one of the best Auckland secondary schools for the 4th,5th and 6th form. Son arrived back in China. Factory manager closes the factory to Sis's access and starts selling her product to competitors. Sis got a local quality assurance crowd to go and have a chat. Got threatened with thugs. Local Police had been bought so were a waste of time. Sis had to fly over, hire even nastier thugs to get rid of the Factory manager. Entire drama cost her close to half a mil.

Mudgripz et al are rightly concerned at any Chinese based inquiry looking for free ideas/feedback. They have form.

Originally Posted by XR500

My Singaporean/Chinese lecturer at staff college warned our class about the Chinese ethos. In one phrase its "am I making more money than the next person?, and if not, how can I grab their money?" Their Government permits their version of Capitalism to flourish because it allows their citizens to throw themselves wholeheartedly at an endeavour that does not threaten the ruling Communist party.

My sister has felt in the first person the Chinese hand of gratitude: Had an entire Chinese factory making product for their business. To cement the relationship they flew the factory managers' entire family over here, then sponsored and paid for their sole child (a son) to attend one of the best Auckland secondary schools for the 4th,5th and 6th form. Son arrived back in China. Factory manager closes the factory to Sis's access and starts selling her product to competitors. Sis got a local quality assurance crowd to go and have a chat. Got threatened with thugs. Local Police had been bought so were a waste of time. Sis had to fly over, hire even nastier thugs to get rid of the Factory manager. Entire drama cost her close to half a mil.

Mudgripz et al are rightly concerned at any Chinese based inquiry looking for free ideas/feedback. They have form.

It beggars belief that lessons learned in the 1600's about how the Chinese do business, by the English, the Dutch and the Portuguese don't stick, no matter how many times since then they get relearned, despite "education" and access to information/knowledge, it always seems to be a surprise when they do what is in their genetic inheritance to do.. Stuff like putting melamine in baby formula to bulk it out and increase profit for example.....

you do realise that the people that put the melamine in the baby formula were given the death penalty ?
The English fucked them over during the Opium wars too, but don't let that spoil a good story.


MD may not be racist but it sure brings them out of the closet

Originally Posted by rugerman

you do realise that the people that put the melamine in the baby formula were given the death penalty ?
The English fucked them over during the Opium wars too, but don't let that spoil a good story.


MD may not be racist but it sure brings them out of the closet

I put together a rather detailed reply to your post, and then deleted, decided it was pointless and continues to drag the thread down the political hole.

An open and honest conversation - no red cards! Play on (Soccer whistle blast!)

Fonteera found out the hard way

+1 @7mm Rem Mag. I've had some great chinese friends - one family moved to Ak some years ago but they were really good, honourable people and a pleasure to know. Nephew just married a young chinese lass - great girl.

Regarding mainland china companies/corporates - No. Very different proposition. As any international marketer will confirm, business only possible with the most stringent product and intellectual property protections in place. China is quite a corrupt country - see well regarded Transparency International Corruption Index. They have very little regard for business ethics and a corrupt legal system. Avoid wherever possible. Facts. One larger NZ corporate my son worked for had a very similar ethical issue to the one spelled out by XR500 above. All too common.. It is always a good idea to look at South Korea and Taiwan first when overseas manufacture necessary. Dearer yes, but very likely savings in the long run.

well Im not a bigoted person and dont automatically put down a person based on the country they came from..... I do however feel burnt once,wary twice isnt a bad way to approach a situation..... reading the replies above and NOW KNOWING how your fellow forum members were shat upon ...you may well understand the WHY I politely suggested OP should...duck cough.....
and a leech...is a blood sucking creature who lives off the blood made by another creature........and if the shoe fits.......
and AGAIN...racism has nothing to do with people of the human race...we are all humans,we are all the same race....
and I TOO have some good folks I would call friends/mates of chinese decent...

Lol anyway back to the thread.
Just have a look to the first add break……note not touch’s yet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=925l3ICmiiQ

Originally Posted by Sideshow

Lol anyway back to the thread.
Just have a look to the first add break……note not touch’s yet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=925l3ICmiiQ

hilarious ....copyrite doesnt seem to translate well into mandarin..... classic line.

Fair enough mate. I just got my dander up when I saw what I thought of as more Chinese bashing. Corporates and companies from all countries try to get away with maximising their profits to the full extent of the law (and often outside of it), and ripping off either their employees or customers is common place all around the world.
With no social welfare system, it's not hard to see what sort of things people will do to eat. It's one of the things I tell myself when I see people from Asian countries taking even perrywinkles down at the beach. Back in their own countries if you don't find food, you don't eat. That's why I only gently inform them of our regulations on collecting seafood.

This has elevated from a junk thread into a race debate.

As a Chinese immigrant myself, I used to get upset when we are stereotyped by others.
Then I realised when I think of a certain type of negative behaviour, my mind will subconsciously link this behaviour with a certain race.

- Exporting poor quality steel and poisonous milk
- Bargaining and tax invasion
- High crime rate, high prison population and living on benefits
- Colonising/taking over countries and continents, then acting to be PC

When you see each of the above, does a certain race pop into your mind? Certainly does for me, I do not want to admit it, but I cannot deny it.

We can all be bad people regardless of our colour, just bad in different but typical ways. This is where stereotype came from.

I won't feel offended if someone says: "Chinese manufacturers have a higher chance of selling poor quality products based on my experience."
I will feel offended if someone says: "Chinese are incapable and dishonest."

Expressing your own experience is fine. Putting down an entire race is not.

Now back to the thread, someone already mentioned about the great internet fire wall of China. I have just asked my friends back in China to try to access this forum and they got blocked. Go figure.

Yeah my chinese dad works in china and he knows as well as anyone else that there are plenty of extremely dishonest chinese manufacturers and you have to have a strong degree of skepticism when dealing in chinese markets. Acknowledging this reality =/= racism.