Thread: Aftermarket R93 and R8 Barrels – Major Safety Concerns

Couldn't agree more brads. It's serious shit. It would be nice to establish a bit more info about what's happened first tho.

Originally Posted by R93

Whatever. You wouldnt have an alternate agenda would you?
I do not know anymore than what has been written on here either. If it is an overload, it makes the original post almost, defamatory. Running to the agent, in my minds stinks and is suspicious.

All I am saying is an actual cause had to be found before going public, not speculation. IMHO I am inclined to think it is of no fault of the fabricator knowing what I know of the cal and rifle design.

Agenda? I've only put 2 and 2 together right now. It's how do you say..clearer on a laptop.
I would go as far as to say pot/kettle....

Hasn't it been stated already 'material too soft'??

Is this a off the shelf cartridge or a wildcat?

Spanners if the material used is what I think it was it is not to soft it is exactly the same hardness as a r8 Blaser barrel. I think someone has seen the colour of the meterial and just assumed it 416 or 304.

The materials properties such as tensile and yield strengths etc are far more important than hardness

Originally Posted by BRADS

Yes there are always two sides to every story.
I feel sorry for the forum member who brought the gun and almost had a woopsy.
Surely we should all be thankful that it went to someone very experienced in the industry who new something was wrong,
If it was built/sold to joe blogs we may be all giving condolences in this thread.
And a fatality is the last thing the builder, user and any of us want two happen.

If it is a forum member that owns the rifle in question , maybe they could make a well thought out and considered statement , listing some of the facts and not just suspicions and guess work .
I have no dog in this fight other than that I own a Blaser R93 . Stager has done the right thing by alerting Blaser owners to a potential problem with an aftermarket alteration , but that is where their involvement should end in the matter .

You just said in your post above that hardness was the problem. The material used has a very high tensile strength to it was chosen after an analysis of a R8 barrel.

Originally Posted by Ground Control

If it is a forum member that owns the rifle in question , maybe they could make a well thought out and considered statement , listing some of the facts and not just suspicions and guess work .
I have no dog in this fight other than that I own a Blaser R93 . Stager has done the right thing by alerting Blaser owners to a potential problem with an aftermarket alteration , but that is where their involvement should end in the matter .

Yes bang on, the owner of said rifle and the rifle builder have both been conspicuous in there absence......
Would be good two get the thoughts from both before everyone cleans and drys.

The problem with the trend to create large capacity, high intensity wildcat cartridges that create chamber pressures that are close or even over the maximum that ammunition manufacturers have set as their standard maximum. It is for this very reason that Stager Sport/Blaser are seriously concerned that any aftermarket barrels that are produced where the critical bolt lock up is made from a steel that is not at all suitable to withstand the pressures and bolt forces generated.

Blaser barrels are produced to withstand a chamber pressure of well in excess of the pressures achieved with normal factory loaded ammunition. To insure the barrels that they manufacture are safe Blaser have them Independently Tested by the German Proof House, it is this Independent Testing that insures the public are purchasing a product that functions safely within the tolerances set by the ammunition manufacturers.

Members of this forum will no doubt recall the problems that another major European manufacturer had a few years ago with a batch of steel that was used to produce their quality rifles that had serious failures causing multiple injuries to shooters both in NZ and overseas where their firearms self destructed using factory ammunition.

This steel related problem happened to a major manufacturer of firearms who has an extensive in-house testing laboratory, how can a local manufactured component be satisfactorily tested to insure safety?

We have stated the major safety concerns of ourselves/Blaser on this issue and if you have any further questions contact Stager Sport.

Presumably it wasn't a "hot" load outsides of whatever guidelines are given for loading this wildcat since it was the first round fired through the rifle. Like, that'd be pretty silly

Stager, you stated in the original post/notice that the chamber expanded? In this instance the bolt lock, as you call it, did not fail at all, correct? If it did, the user would possibly be wearing the carrier assembly as a face ornament or worse.
Which is it?

This whole thing stinks and to me at the moment, actually sounds like a setup, which I think you lot at stager have unfortunately, only seen the end result.

Originally Posted by L.R

You just said in your post above that hardness was the problem. The material used has a very high tensile strength to it was chosen after an analysis of a R8 barrel.

It was stated prior it was too soft and you said it was the same...??
Hardness, tensile and yield as materials basic properties are not linear or uniform across different materials ie increase one and rest go up too at the same proportion.

You obviously know a lot more about it all... How was the receiver tested.... Chopped up and sent away to a lab for core analysis or?? I can't see how you could possibly find the info required to make a material decision using non destructive testing methods, and I'm not aware of anywhere in NZ or Oz that can do a full analysis, we've always has to use Singapore or Norway
With that info available it can be pretty easy to put to bed assumptions on materials etc

Originally Posted by Stager Sport

The chamber expansion was so great that the owner showed this by inserting a cartridge into the chamber backwards for three quarters of its length.

Given that the material is of the 'same strength' and a cartridge goes in backwards does this not point to a chambering problem? Dont know , havent had anything to do with the caliber and not sure of the cartridge dimensions . but its something i would be looking at

No. It is possible to stretch the chamber as it is only built from 416 ss barrel steel. What I have learnt from playing with aftermarket receivers is that .308 boltface cartrages seem to be about the max diameter you can get away with without extraction problems.
Stager is correct in saying that you cannot transfer the chamber wall forces through the barrel threads and into the receiver, it dosent matter how tight the threads are, I have even had some ground to super tight tolerances.

Sometimes you may get away with going to a mag case if everything works in your favour, like hard brass and using a 4140 barrel not stainless. You have to remember that there is only about 2.5-3mm of chamber wall thickness to the root of the thread. What this means is that you can strech the chamber if you put to much pressure in it. I don't believe this causes a risk of the bolt lock coming undone all it does is make extraction almost impossible.

The same thing happens all the time on conventional bolt actions when you try to use a large diameter case in a action with a marginal Tennon size. All that happens is hard or impossible extraction it doesn't pose a risk of shearing off the bolt lugs.

Yes it is true that these Blaser aftermarket barrels with mag chamberings will be closer to the limit than a standard blaser barrel, however if the person who owns it is sensible like any reloader needs to be, then I don't believe they are dangerous.

Tussock I don't think anybody is saying that what Stager is saying happened didn't. It's just a matter of what caused it. I think that's what people are asking for, more information.

As we know there are all sorts of commercial wars going on, and we just want evidence that this is not another one.

Also I'd like to point out for a second time that I have nothing to do with this aftermarket barrel and I am only guessing who the two parties involved are.

This is a shit thread. It will only become worse and end up with someone getting sin binned or worse.
I suggest it is locked and only opened again once there is some tangible evidence. Until then, the OP is probably left as it stands, a warning, not an open discussion as to which quorum has the high ground.