Thread: The am show this morning

Think you'll find that 'less guns equals less gun crime' at least as far as the US is concerned.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/f...uns-and-death/

These US centric findings are probably influenced by high handgun sales/ownership and not relevant elsewhere (such as Finland, Sweden and Norway with high gun ownership)

danger mouse highlighted the nub of it above and hard to see how it could have gone another way in NZ.

Michael Moore's "Bowling for Columbine" documentary , way back in 2002 explained it pretty well.

If you watch some period movies (watching 1883 right now) you will see how the possession and use of firearms was intricately woven into their patchwork of life.

In a nutshell Michael Moore identified easy access to firearms, combined with massive wealth inequality primarily to blame.

The recent shooting and killing was sorrow, but it does `t change my opinion about guns. Still it `s people killing people, even banned all the firearms, people will continue to kill people. They can use knifes, bombs, or even a bus or truck. In the history, if a Govt do `t allow people to own weapons, those govt was and is not a govt as freeman wanted.

Originally Posted by Black Rabbit

The recent shooting and killing was sorrow, but it does `t change my opinion about guns. Still it `s people killing people, even banned all the firearms, people will continue to kill people. They can use knifes, bombs, or even a bus or truck. In the history, if a Govt do `t allow people to own weapons, those govt was and is not a govt as freeman wanted.

Can that be true if the homicide rate corresponds directly with the number/availability of firearms?

Originally Posted by small_caliber

Can you please point me to the peer reviewed studies that support what you are saying.

I see what you did there!

Originally Posted by small_caliber

Can you please point me to the peer reviewed studies that support what you are saying.

I'm not sure if I should respond to this but there's a pretty solid Harvard lit review a few posts up.
Perhaps you could investigate further yourself or even provide 'peer reviewed' studies that show the co-relation not to be so.

I mentioned Sweden, Finland and Norway in my post. They all have high gun ownership rates (mostly sporting arms) and have low homicide rates in comparison with USA but are high in comparison with other European countries.
Here's Sweden as an example

https://www.barrons.com/news/sweden-...ws-01622034913

Originally Posted by MarkN

I'm not going get into the minutiae, of the pro and anti gun laws, argument.

I will however, make an observation, on the American, "freedom to own guns without restriction", people.

The starting point, in the defence of this stance, is almost always, the second amendment of the constitution of the U.S.A.

The amendment reads: “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

Let's examine the first four words - “A well regulated militia...”

Read this bit slowly - What is gun control legislation, applied to people who own guns, if not regulation?

The regulated bit, of the regulated militia.....

And yet the people trumpeting the “A well regulated militia...” are violently opposed to having any regulation.

I think I've laboured the point enough.


further reading https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...eaning-history

The well regulated part, in the language of the day, meant properly equipped.

Most of the artillery used in the early part of the Rev war was privately owned - and this wasn't uncommon for the time. Many ships carried cannon for protection against pirates, and additionally private artillery was necessary as the westward movement ran into resistance from the current inhabitants - necessitating blockhouses and forts wrapped around trading posts.

With regard to preferring to be shot at with a shotgun than a semi-auto.... What if it's a semi-auto shotgun?

That has to be quote of the year when Ryan looks at Parker and asks "Do you think the gangs gave back all their semiautomatics" and ffs Park says "yes". The look on Ryans face is priceless.

and how does Parker know which guns were used?

Originally Posted by Longrun

I mentioned Sweden, Finland and Norway in my post. They all have high gun ownership rates (mostly sporting arms) and have low homicide rates in comparison with USA but are high in comparison with other European countries.
Here's Sweden as an example

https://www.barrons.com/news/sweden-...ws-01622034913

You need to understand why the homocide rate in Sweden has skyrocketed. That is a combination of factors due mostly to open boarders and gangs of new arrivals jockying for dominance in the drug trade. Not "Lars Erikkson" brassing up the systembolaget with his Hunting Rifle.

Sweden, Finland and Norway are very safe and law abiding countries outside the big cities.

I understand that perfectly well. The article attached says as much.
Unfortunately the rule makers are looking at the simple metrics that I've highlighted.
I'm not saying I agree with it...it is however, happening.

Originally Posted by Longrun

I understand that perfectly well. The article attached says as much.
Unfortunately the rule makers are looking at the simple metrics that I've highlighted.
I'm not saying I agree with it...it is however, happening.

No you are mistaken,the artical does not mention ethnicity nor Swedens liberal immigration policy.Which may well be factors?

Anyhoo I am off to Stockholm on Thursday, its a loverly time of year over there.

Here's what a Russian citizen interested in the subject says.

'Because you have to go deeper.

In the US the intentional homicide rate is 4.9 and 2.83 of that is firearm-related (more than half). In Russia the homicide rate is 9.2 and while there are no good sources on the firearm related rate, neighboring Belarus and Ukraine have similar to Russian firearm possession laws and both have the firearm-related death rate less than 0.1. So basically guns doesn't contribute that much to the homicide rate in Russia. Note, that it doesn't really mean that the homicide rate doesn't depend on gun control laws.

As for the question why the homicide rate is so high in Russia: once again, we have to go deeper. When we slice and dice data we will see that most of homicides are connected with alcohol intoxication and while Moscow has the rate of 3.5, Siberia region has the rate of 15, which roughly correlates with the alcohol consumption by region. Another thing is percentage of homicides as a result of domestic violence. As much as 70-80% of murders in Russia are results of domestic violence (and again due to alcohol intoxication), this is much higher percentage than in the US.

So basically your chances of being murdered on the streets in Russia is actually smaller than in the US.'

Yes it is. The Harvard review was focussed on western developed nations and was consistent.

You can focus on outliers/anomalies if you will though the rule makers of western nations are not.

Them's just the facts.