Thread: Another Hunter Killed

Originally Posted by Kakaramea

This is a tragedy. Our thoughts are with the families and friends.
I know the bloke who got shot is a really good bloke though I have never met him.
I do know the shooter and he is an experienced hunter, a bloke with a really good level head on his shoulders; he works in the field of rescue and safety and first aid training; and is a paramedic too. This is quite out of character for him to make such a misjudgement.......he must be going through hell.

I agree to more training. This is happening too often of late.

Heading out for a hunt with a mate today; we are talking about the plan; we will stick to the plan; and will not shoot in the direction of the other -i.e if we follow a ridge line the right shooter will never shoot to the left and visa versa - even if an animal runs from right to left across the right shooters path.
Thought needs to be given as to where will this bullet go if I miss this animal too.

I hear you there, he is in a bad way, they live a couple of doors down from us our wifes know each other though school and my oldest boy plays with his son they are in the same class at school. a truly lovely man that will never ever be the same i know he will have all the support from the community.

I wish people would stop using the words "experienced hunter" when discussing a fuck wit that enters the bush armed and dangerous.

pretty sad all round. really there is no need for it to happen just ID your target every time and make sure that is wot u want to shoot. thats all you need to do. so easy.

Spook the Point here is this guy isn't just a fuckwit with a gun.

Originally Posted by Spook

I wish people would stop using the words "experienced hunter" when discussing a fuck wit that enters the bush armed and dangerous.

Originally Posted by Kakaramea

Spook the Point here is this guy isn't just a fuckwit with a gun.

Then what is he...he has a nick name of "8 shot" [or something like that], I, for one would be interested in knowing why...sounds like some 'lead in the air" type...would have been over the moon, albiet for a very short time, to have finally got a "one shot kill"...or did he clobber his mate with a mag full...I am pleased the bastard will no longer be a danger to other hunters.

We all need to be very clear about this – ANY hunter can make a mistake that can and frequently is fatal to another human.

How can this happen – well it’s our brain interpreting our senses incorrectly.

The easiest way of understanding how it can happen to ANY OF US is to consider why pilots need instruments for flying in cloud or at night. No matter how experienced the pilot, the sensory information being conveyed to their brain is open to misinterpretation. A pilot understands this and their training is to absolutely rely on the instruments – it took a lot of deaths to gain this understanding !!

ALL Hunters MUST understand that the they are capable of making a mistake (of misinterpreting the data) – no matter how experienced they may be – that’s because we don’t have an “instrument” to rely on, only our understanding of our own weakness, and that understanding can prompt us to re-evaluate.

If you are not convinced by the pilot example, exactly the same thing happens to sailors - both amateurs and professionals, they mis-time lights, they hit rocks clearly marked on charts (and chart plotters), because they trust their senses instead of their instruments.

This is the reason I actually feel in more danger (when hunting) when I see many of the comments in these sorts of discussions “it will never happen to me” – my first though is - oh yes it will, and you’d better understand how and why, or it may indeed be you pulling the trigger !!

There is actually a recognized psychological phenom revolving around the inability of the human mind to correctly process all the senses simultaneously and/or notice environmental changes, when this is coupled with divided attention, tiredness or any number of contributing factors accidents happen.
The mind is surprisingly easy confused and sees or doesn't see what it wants to fill in the blanks.

In no way am i justifying any miss identification but it shows the importance of double and triple checking targets and the importance of being focused as it is amazing what can be missed when your not paying full attention (refer the link for an example)
selective attention test - YouTube!

I still can't see how more training is going a make any difference when the hunters doing the shootings are quoted as saying they were 100% sure they were shooting a deer?
Maybe be proactive and look at it the other way around and protect yourself rather than relying on others. Make it compulsory to cover yourself, more than a hat, in dayglo/blaze when bush hunting, like it is overseas. Sounds dumb but the flashing LED idea would probably work too if it didn't scare game away, not many deer wear those. Sure its a bit more cost but any of these solutions are going to cost something cause knowing what's right and doing the same isn't obviously working.
Eyesight testing possibly should be part of the licensing system too. It's relatively important to be able to see when shooting isn't it?

[QUOTE=Dead is better;40352]I dont think a compulsory hunting course is suitable for all shooters. Some of us will never hunt and only shoot targets, what benefit would they get? No this is stricktly a hunting license issue that may need to come into existance.

Being that this seems to be a psychological effect of the activity of hunting - i see no way to just 'train' your way out of it. Perhaps the way forward is to employ more technology in the field. I mean Jumbo jet pilots dont rely on their eyes to prevent mid air disasters. They use early warning systems and gps etc. Maybe we all should wear an eprb type device that a monitoring station watches over the weekend. When one blip gets within 1 km of another, that blip gets sent a text message. Couldnt an automatic server be set up to produce a simple warning when this happens?[/QUOTE]



I thought about this several years ago, but it would require 100% compliance. Some idiots would start shooting at anything that didn't "bleep"

Totally agree Tentman. As I said in my earlier post - complacency is a dangerous thing. We all need to be aware that it has happened to other very experienced hunters, and it can happen to any one of us. I get fully blazed up these days, and recent magazine articles appear to show that I am more concealed from deer in my blaze orange, than someone else in brown/green camo gear. I also believe that just an orange beanie is not enough, and in low light, could be seen as a bit of light shining on a red's summer coat.
Some mates think that the blaze clothing is perpetrated by retailers, but I'm willing to glow in the dark to save my arse. I'm not a good enough bush stalker anyway - so if you see an orange glow overlooking a slip - don't shoot!

Approx 300,000 FAL holders in NZ, if we were levied $10 a year that's 3mil that could go towards safety, education, practical training, etc

Firstly, my thoughts, prayers and condolences for the families of those affected.

I know Henry personally and have always admired his character and professionalism.
Henry is one of the most qualified instructors I know of and a specialist in the field of safety management. His manner is always intelligent, thorough, and humble.

One of my mentors in the outdoors industry introduced me to the concept of Confirmation Bias – the tendency to search for or interpret information in a way that confirms one's preconceptions. List of cognitive biases - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Since then I have read a lot on reasons people make wrong calls and can tell you that this is a complex field. The call to ‘identify your target’ really needs a lot more explanation of what may happen in your head. Studies done on the best of the best air force pilots found that even their minds can play tricks on them leading to not ‘see’ landing warning signs correctly, or to incorrectly identify friendly personnel as enemies. (eg Deep Survival by L Gonzales)
Applying this to hunting the best advice I’ve heard is asking “is that a person” rather than “is that a deer” as this will help your bias toward the safe option.

My main thoughts on this tragedy is that if people at this level of expertise and experience can make these mistakes, then no one is immune from this mistake happening to them. We should carry that reminder with us each time we hunt.

And we should continue to be humble in our own estimation of our abilities

I totally agree with lentil. i blaze up every time, reduce the risk as much as you can. that stony creek blaze is great hunters shouild be able to see you for a mile. anyone shoots you while wearing blaze should be locked up for a very long time thats for sure.

Thats a fair comment about the blaze orange, yet it apparently can be mistaken for a deer at 16m with a scope. Unfortunately there are people out there that will shoot at the first thing they see, rather than think it could be a person. It appears as though when we go hunting we not only have to look for deer to shoot, but we have to look for some stupid wanker that wants to shoot us thinking we are a deer.

Unfortunately it isnt the first and it wont be the last. Everyone has to be safe with the thought in the back of you mind, who else is in here and what are their intentions or how excited are they. Have never hunted the roar, and never will as it is far too dangerous.

Everyone be safe and cautious of who may be around.

Henry Worsp 6 MONTHS HOME DETENTION and 250 hrs COMMUNITY WORK.
James Dodds __________________________________________________ _____________________________RIP.
If only everybody would totally identify there targets beyond any doubt. We will all be safer out there doing what we love and return to our families at the end of a hunt.