Thread: Another stunning decision by the judiciary, wtf.

Originally Posted by Martin358

we need to elect our judges and top cops just like the americans, on their past record of sentencing crims.

The last thing in the world [almost] I want is a judicial system like the Americans have.

Originally Posted by chainsaw

three charges of driving while suspended and one each of failing to stop for police, unlawful possession of a firearm, possession of cannabis, possession of cannabis seeds for supply, possession of a pipe to smoke methamphetamine and theft of petrol, and 2 sets of scales, a straw used to scoop out the drug (meth) and 45 small bags were found in the middle console.... and for all that he gets, wait for it ....... sentenced to a total of six months and two weeks' home detention after taking all discounts into consideration and disqualified him from driving for 18 months.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/drug-a...WRZXGCPVKZROQ/

He's just lucky they didnt revoke his firearms licence (LOL)

Originally Posted by rewa

He's just lucky they didnt revoke his firearms licence (LOL)

They couldn’t he’s in the que

Unfortunately there has been clear mandate from central government to reduce the prison population, this has had a direct impact on sentencing and what punishment should be applied in cases. There is a clear move towards more community based sentencing, its just a reflection of the ever increasing workness of society.
There has also been a distinct change in selection of judges with the focus on appointments following on from many Government sector roles were the weighting used to assess appointments reflects the current directives on Gender, Ethnicity and at times political affiliation, competency and experience are considered but no longer as relevant as they once were.
This is occurring across many Government departments and has been happening for sometime now and is more prevalent in senior positions. There are some very good people who work in the all Government departments but high level positions are far more susceptible to political interference than they once were. One only needs to look at the senior appointments in DOC while Sage was the Minister to see how easy it was for her to ensure her cronies were appointed to senior positions.
You need to understand that the justice system is funded and runs on providing for the offender not the victim, in many cases they show scant or no regard for the impact of crime on the victim, this was summed up to me many years ago in a discussing with a rather older cynical defence lawyer who when asked why there was so little focus on victims, his reply was simple "there's no money in victims". Sums it up well in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Pengy

Many many years ago, I had mate/neighbour who was, shall we say, a little different to the rest of us.
Through our early teens, he would get up to all sorts of criminal shit, but always walked away from court to fight another day. Always.

Later on in life, we crossed paths again, and I asked him straight up how he never got to do jail time.
His response was was that , as a "rent Boy" , he had all the judges by the balls, so to speak

What, he worked for Barfoot and Thompson?


I'm kidding

Former Chief Justice of New South Wales:

The … core of the sentencing task is a process of balancing overlapping, contradictory and incommensurable objectives. The requirements of deterrence, rehabilitation, denunciation, punishment and restorative justice, do not generally point in the same direction. Specifically, the requirements of justice, in the sense of just deserts, and of mercy, often conflict. Yet we live in a society which values both justice and mercy.

Originally Posted by Tahr

Former Chief Justice of New South Wales:

The … core of the sentencing task is a process of balancing overlapping, contradictory and incommensurable objectives. The requirements of deterrence, rehabilitation, denunciation, punishment and restorative justice, do not generally point in the same direction. Specifically, the requirements of justice, in the sense of just deserts, and of mercy, often conflict. Yet we live in a society which values both justice and mercy.

I've said it before: ......In keeping with the interests of global trade and capitalism.... maybe we should outsource sentencing/rehabilitation/restitution to our trading partners who have no such qualms about actually dealing with the problem... China, Saudi Arabia etc.
We have no problem dealing with these trading partners on every other level, and if we have criminals who need to be removed from society, so be it - if that requires a first class plane ticket to send them to a prison and an annual "upkeep" payment, so be it.
If they come back rehabilitated - very well, apply a short leash (the obligation has to be to potential victims), if they don't come back - no great loss.

I've been saying this for years. Export all criminals out of Nz to somewhere tropical...like Changi Prison. Pay them to look after them turn all existing prisons in NZ into housing for homeless, old folks etc. If we gave them 50k a year that would still be les than half what it costs to house them in a NZ prison

There is no way that anyone sent to Changi for a couple of years would re offend. Too shit scared to go back there. Problem solved.

Originally Posted by tac a1

I've been saying this for years. Export all criminals out of Nz to somewhere tropical...like Changi Prison. Pay them to look after them turn all existing prisons in NZ into housing for homeless, old folks etc. If we gave them 50k a year that would still be les than half what it costs to house them in a NZ prison

There is no way that anyone sent to Changi for a couple of years would re offend. Too shit scared to go back there. Problem solved.

1 in 5 Changi inmates end up back in there.

https://mothership.sg/2022/02/changi...ary-episode-3/

Originally Posted by Tahr

1 in 5 Changi inmates end up back in there.

https://mothership.sg/2022/02/changi...ary-episode-3/

70% of NZ offenders are reconvicted within 2 years of release from prison, and 49% are imprisoned again within 2 years of release. There has to be a better way.

https://www.corrections.govt.nz/reso...onth-follow-up

Originally Posted by sore head stoat

The last thing in the world [almost] I want is a judicial system like the Americans have.

dunno, i fully support the death sentence for evil scumbags

Admittedly I don't have a lot of experience in the punishment issues but I do have a few close experiences.
One involved a young man who got tangled up with drug dealing and use and gangs. Ended up in minimum security prison for several months and wanted to stay clean after release. He got targeted by past crim associates and pressured back into crime and then more jail time. Killed himself after second release.
Other things I have seen are chaps coming out of prison into work and going ok until hit on by past crims associates and or rellies who want cash handouts and similar bludging. Some of these chaps try to rehabilitate their lifestyles but are in catch 22 where to be free of crim influences they have to isolate from old friends whanau and even places they lived. To do so is hard.
I see the system failure as being lack of very strong probation rules along with very strong protection for the ones trying to stay clean, from criminals amd their pressures.
Such protection would require laws in place to enforce the prevention of criminal associations with ex crims and their families. The civil rights implications would be complex but the reality is that hardened crim groups and families don't give a hoot for anyone but themselves. They create and breed their own separation from decent society and it is cancerous unless removed zapped or isolated such that the disease cannot spread.
I have seen potentially good men and families swallowed into poverty and crime simply because of influence from crim friends rellies and associates which the family would not or for some reason could not isolate from.

Originally Posted by gmm

Unfortunately there has been clear mandate from central government to reduce the prison population, this has had a direct impact on sentencing and what punishment should be applied in cases. There is a clear move towards more community based sentencing, its just a reflection of the ever increasing workness of society.
There has also been a distinct change in selection of judges with the focus on appointments following on from many Government sector roles were the weighting used to assess appointments reflects the current directives on Gender, Ethnicity and at times political affiliation, competency and experience are considered but no longer as relevant as they once were.
This is occurring across many Government departments and has been happening for sometime now and is more prevalent in senior positions. There are some very good people who work in the all Government departments but high level positions are far more susceptible to political interference than they once were. One only needs to look at the senior appointments in DOC while Sage was the Minister to see how easy it was for her to ensure her cronies were appointed to senior positions.
You need to understand that the justice system is funded and runs on providing for the offender not the victim, in many cases they show scant or no regard for the impact of crime on the victim, this was summed up to me many years ago in a discussing with a rather older cynical defence lawyer who when asked why there was so little focus on victims, his reply was simple "there's no money in victims". Sums it up well in my opinion.

Sums it up very well.

Originally Posted by Maca49

I agree, ………….with the last sentence

I agree with a longer, prison sentence!

Originally Posted by Woody

Admittedly I don't have a lot of experience in the punishment issues but I do have a few close experiences.
One involved a young man who got tangled up with drug dealing and use and gangs. Ended up in minimum security prison for several months and wanted to stay clean after release. He got targeted by past crim associates and pressured back into crime and then more jail time. Killed himself after second release.
Other things I have seen are chaps coming out of prison into work and going ok until hit on by past crims associates and or rellies who want cash handouts and similar bludging. Some of these chaps try to rehabilitate their lifestyles but are in catch 22 where to be free of crim influences they have to isolate from old friends whanau and even places they lived. To do so is hard.
I see the system failure as being lack of very strong probation rules along with very strong protection for the ones trying to stay clean, from criminals amd their pressures.
Such protection would require laws in place to enforce the prevention of criminal associations with ex crims and their families. The civil rights implications would be complex but the reality is that hardened crim groups and families don't give a hoot for anyone but themselves. They create and breed their own separation from decent society and it is cancerous unless removed zapped or isolated such that the disease cannot spread.
I have seen potentially good men and families swallowed into poverty and crime simply because of influence from crim friends rellies and associates which the family would not or for some reason could not isolate from.

you very close to hitting the answer...close but not quite there...... rather than the recently released being prohibited from associating with crims/gangs it needs flipped on its head...crims n gangs need to keep the hell away from everyone else....how you do that is the fly in ointment... lock them up some say..... make it hard for them to move around others say...drop them in bottom of a deep hole others say....
being able to recieve dole in its many forms WITHOUT being drug tested is the first thing that needs addressed..... being on dole/DPB/sickness etc etc may not be quite so attractive of lifestyle if you have to pee in a jar and be clean or recieve a deminishing benifit untill clean again,say a 25% drop per failed test?????