Thread: The anti gun lobby

Originally Posted by Sidney

Do the rest of us a favour Rushy.... remain convinced internally....

The mind numbing number of times that the "privilege" crap comes out is not helpful.....

Chill man.

Originally Posted by Rushy

You fail to convince me and for as long as there a single person who having the right to apply for a firearms license does not get that license for whatever reason (be it inability to pass a simple test process or having been determined to be an unfit individual) then you will not ever convince me that that individual or any of the rest of us have the right to own firearms as you assert.

I simply do not agree with you.

I agree with you Rushy, it's a privilege, not because of the police, but because with the strike of a pen, any government of the day can remove that privilege. For you that are not quite as old as a few of us probably don't remember the plans of one government to have all firearms surrendered a held in armouries that they could be withdrawn from and returned after use. Not a privilege? It certainly ain't a right, enjoy it while you can, and be prepared to defend ownership as a combined group when that time comes. Mr Alpers was bad news for us all, a few of him could cause real harm?

Originally Posted by Maca49

I agree with you Rushy, it's a privilege, not because of the police, but because with the strike of a pen, any government of the day can remove that privilege. For you that are not quite as old as a few of us probably don't remember the plans of one government to have all firearms surrendered a held in armouries that they could be withdrawn from and returned after use. Not a privilege? It certainly ain't a right, enjoy it while you can, and be prepared to defend ownership as a combined group when that time comes. Mr Alpers was bad news for us all, a few of him could cause real harm?

That's true of any legal right. The government can, with the "strike of a pen" remove your Right to free speech, freedom of religion, etc, and in some places they do. Doesn't make it less of a Legal Right while it exists.

Originally Posted by Maca49

I agree with you Rushy, it's a privilege, not because of the police, but because with the strike of a pen, any government of the day can remove that privilege. For you that are not quite as old as a few of us probably don't remember the plans of one government to have all firearms surrendered a held in armouries that they could be withdrawn from and returned after use. Not a privilege? It certainly ain't a right, enjoy it while you can, and be prepared to defend ownership as a combined group when that time comes. Mr Alpers was bad news for us all, a few of him could cause real harm?

That is true of any existing legal rights under the law in any area... what is your point? Are we supposed to feel grateful that the govt doesn't take away our "privileges"

Is everything just a privilege...? When did we lose the conceptual understanding that the govt is supposed to represent the people, and supposed to protect individual freedoms and rights?


In what other areas do we think that a possible incursion against individual legally recognised freedoms for some sort of perceived societal benefit, is simply a taking away of privileges?

Are we going to be any better at resisting changes to our existing rights under the law, if we simply think of them as privileges rather than existing legal rights...?

Do we have any argument that the wider community would understand if we are simply beneficiaries of privileges, rather than being legal and lawful citizens and having the law discriminate specifically against individual freedoms?

The discussion has to be formulated in a manner that provides the strongest argument.... the word privilege is not only inaccurate, it is detrimental.


IS that OK EBF.... no insults there?

Originally Posted by Sidney

That is true of any existing legal rights under the law in any area... what is your point? Are we supposed to feel grateful that the govt doesn't take away our "privileges"

Is everything just a privilege...? When did we lose the conceptual understanding that the govt is supposed to represent the people, and supposed to protect individual freedoms and rights?


In what other areas do we think that a possible incursion against individual legally recognised freedoms for some sort of perceived societal benefit, is simply a taking away of privileges?

Are we going to be any better at resisting changes to our existing rights under the law, if we simply think of them as privileges rather than existing legal rights...?

Do we have any argument that the wider community would understand if we are simply beneficiaries of privileges, rather than being legal and lawful citizens and having the law discriminate specifically against individual freedoms?

The discussion has to be formulated in a manner that provides the strongest argument.... the word privilege is not only inaccurate, it is detrimental.


IS that OK EBF.... no insults there?

The dream starts in the second paragraph!

Originally Posted by Maca49

The dream starts in the second paragraph!

The've beaten us if we don't at least remind ourselves and them occasionally..... we may as well call everything a privilege....lol

Goddammit, the day the right to own a firearm is deemed a privilege will be the end of society as we know it...the greatest killer by accidental death in this country is the motor vehicle...who in their right mind views motor vehicle ownership a privilege...

But I do not want to discuss that, I want to get back to the original subject matter...anti-gun lobbyists...theirs is the same as just about every lobby group there is...rabid zealots who blather their gobbledegook with the hysterical eyes of a wounded cape buffalo...I just wish that they could discuss their concerns in a logical, calm manner...just as the rest of touchy feely groups who have as much commonsense and practical knowledge of basically anything as a mealy bug. The poor brainwashed people...yes, I know, I know, we are all entitled to the privilege and right of having OUR own opinion...but you are not going to enlighten anyone with hysteria.

sidney, do you think it is possible for you to get involved in a discussion without it ending in insults or you calling at least one other person dumb/an idiot etc ?

you obviously have a wealth of knowledge (being a law student), but treating the rest of the world like intellectual lepers is a bit sad

think of it as practise for dealing with future (non legally educated) clients...

EBF - I'll think that I save the dispassionate platitudes for the paying cliental....

who exactly did I use those words on again...? if it was 308 u are feeling sorry for read his post.... yes I could have ignored him..... but pretty sure he couldn't have expected much different....

But thanks for the help anyway...

Originally Posted by ebf

sidney, do you think it is possible for you to get involved in a discussion without it ending in insults or you calling at least one other person dumb/an idiot etc ?

you obviously have a wealth of knowledge (being a law student), but treating the rest of the world like intellectual lepers is a bit sad

think of it as practise for dealing with future (non legally educated) clients...

Learning to be a lawyer has it challengers

Originally Posted by Maca49

Learning to be a lawyer has it challengers

There has been more than one in this thread...

Presumably the anti-gun lobby is just inside the entrance to the anti-gun building.

Your right Gimp, live in the moment as it may not be there tomorrow, it's a right under current law, it's a privilege at the hands of those that wield the axe. There's safety in numbers, as in the states, it could become the same situ here at any time. How's your life time licences? Rights are being ripped away every year, I've seen shitloads disappear in my short life.

Originally Posted by Maca49

Your right Gimp, live in the moment as it may not be there tomorrow, it's a right under current law, it's a privilege at the hands of those that wield the axe. There's safety in numbers, as in the states, it could become the same situ here at any time. How's your life time licences? Rights are being ripped away every year, I've seen shitloads disappear in my short life.

That really doesn't mean that we should give them up or use the terms applied to them by those that attempt, through bureaucratic/institutional obfuscation and intimidation, to take them from us.

Fuck I love you young guy, keep fighting the good fight, and I'll join ya, but right now I need to go to sleep!