Thread: Armed Police buying lunch

Originally Posted by Cordite

I would not ban police from training at any public range, but I'd insist they must be full members. Strikes a fair and reasonable balance and opens the door for them to come along to get some much needed extra training in their own time.

But with semis being banned from many ranges & you can only shoot pistols at a Pistol range....the options are shortening....

Originally Posted by aetchell

The officers don't make the law though, they are there to uphold it. Giving the police shit over this is the same attitude from the govt and press that we are all up in arms about.

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But the Police and Police Assocation did submit against the new Legislation, guess what, they were all for it and knew what was coming in advance. Note the Police info stating after the Order in Council that 5 shot semi and shotguns were not affected. Guess what was in the new Legislation? They have had their hands and fingers all over the new legislation.

Originally Posted by mawzer308

I have no issue whatsoever with Police being armed. They have a right to defend themselves at all times whilst on the job.

You can't defend yourself with a gun. You can defend yourself with a stick or a shield, but not a gun. A gun can only eliminate a threat.

Now, for 99% of what cops do, that gun is a threat to the cop. When you talk to a police officer, do they stand 5m away? No. So you stand and talk to a police officer and the gun is a threat to the police officer and to you. In defensive terms you are fighting over a gun. Not a good situation.

So you need two police officers. One to talk to you and one to stand off to the side and provide cover. Now you are talking to a police officer in the pie shop, at gun point.

Most of this I learned from a senior detective. The rest I learned doing firearms drills with Australian police officers in a civilian Jiu Jistu gym (this is all technically Jiu Jitsu). The senior detective described from experience the awkwardness of fighting someone while trying to throw your side arm to your partner. "Mostly a pain in the arse" I believe he said.

I'm happy for them to have an arsenal in the car, I just fail to see the logic of wearing one strapped to you. Every situation they are in right now involves a firearm, and they bought the firearm!

They are for threatening and only make sense if you use them the way the Americans or other violent countries do and just threaten people a lot and shoot a lot of people.

If I talk to police at gun point, that is not policing by consent. That is policing by coercion. They have fundamentally changed the nature of this country and its laws and principles.

The “threat level” isn’t the only reason police need to carry firearms. Now general arming every officer may be a negative because it would be rather easy to overpower a solo female cop and take her side arm.
But I believe in general arming of the police of those members who have had more training in retention of a sidearm.

The other threat police face are gang members with firearms. It is unbelievable how many gang members are in possession of firearms in their footwells, down the side of their car doors or in their boots of the vehicle. An unarmed officer has to approach these situations and then once they know there is a threat it could be far too late..
the police are here to protect he public. While at the moment it sucks they have taken the wrong side of the firearms argument it DOES NOT make them our enemy.

I am sorry disappointed in the police leaderships and also Chris Cahills to disarm law abiding citizens but that doesn’t make the average cop on the street a bad guy who wants to take your guns. There are police also who will be losing their sport and firearms and these individual attacks or remarks against a single police officer are a little stupid. That cop you take the piss out of for being armed may be on our side of the argument and you don’t even know it. Maybe she will have to take action with a firearm against an active shooter later that night or some idiot stomping someone’s head in. Would we complain about the arming then?

The I am trying to make is that cops are individuals as well. Just because the leadership has backed the MSSA ban doesn’t mean the cop does. It would be unfair for the police that disagree with the ban have to leave their employment just to prove how disgusting they think it is.

How about we be a democracy and put the ban to a vote. Hats our real problem here. So we as a society can decide what rules and laws we want in this country.

Oh and I do think the police as an organisation are going the wrong way on many things. But the cop on the street is still on the side of def ending the public from harm. We need to remember that.

Originally Posted by aetchell

The officers don't make the law though, they are there to uphold it. Giving the police shit over this is the same attitude from the govt and press that we are all up in arms about.

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I hear that, but i'm thinking of the message being sent to police hq for being rude pricks and devious bastards too.
The frontline cop is no doubt not too impressed with this bill either. But must suffer the consequences of their bosses poor decisions.
Hopefully it pushes some police to kick cahill up the arse and take that dogs job from him.

I live in Australia for just over half the year so armed Police aren’t something I ever contemplate much now after 15 years , but I had a funny interaction a couple of years ago .
I was in a small remote town ( just bid enough for a McDonald’s which was brand new ) standing in the line waiting for my Cheeseburger meal .
Beside me was a couple of Detectives, a man and a woman, plain clothes apart from a a badge and a Glock on their belts .
Now I always carry a Syderco Delica knife clipped in my pocket , the law says I can as long as its work / occupation related which it is .
The woman Officer notices my knife and asks
“ is that a knife you’ve got there “
“ Yes “
“ Can I have a look at it “
“ No worries “
“ How long is the blade “
“ 3 Inches “
There is a long silence as she looks me up and down , taking in my work attire, the fact that my hands have dirt under under their nails and my 50 year old skin has seen more Sun than she will in her entire life .
Silently she hands it back without a word .
About 10 seconds goes past which is a long time in this scenario.
I think to myself “ F*#k it nothing Ventured nothing Won “

“ is that a Pistol you’ve got there “
“ Yes “
“ How long is the Barrel “
“ Ummmm I don’t actually know “
Just as I was about to speak the Male officer looked at me with a smile on his face and said “ Don’t ask if you can have a look at it “

We all laughed and understood we were just going about our day .
The Police aren’t the enemy, they are tasked with a thankless job that I’m glad I don’t have to do .

Originally Posted by Ground Control

I live in Australia for just over half the year so armed Police aren’t something I ever contemplate much now after 15 years , but I had a funny interaction a couple of years ago .
I was in a small remote town ( just bid enough for a McDonald’s which was brand new ) standing in the line waiting for my Cheeseburger meal .
Beside me was a couple of Detectives, a man and a woman, plain clothes apart from a a badge and a Glock on their belts .
Now I always carry a Syderco Delica knife clipped in my pocket , the law says I can as long as its work / occupation related which it is .
The woman Officer notices my knife and asks
“ is that a knife you’ve got there “
“ Yes “
“ Can I have a look at it “
“ No worries “
“ How long is the blade “
“ 3 Inches “
There is a long silence as she looks me up and down , taking in my work attire, the fact that my hands have dirt under under their nails and my 50 year old skin has seen more Sun than she will in her entire life .
Silently she hands it back without a word .
About 10 seconds goes past which is a long time in this scenario.
I think to myself “ F*#k it nothing Ventured nothing Won “

“ is that a Pistol you’ve got there “
“ Yes “
“ How long is the Barrel “
“ Ummmm I don’t actually know “
Just as I was about to speak the Male officer looked at me with a smile on his face and said “ Don’t ask if you can have a look at it “

We all laughed and understood we were just going about our day .
The Police aren’t the enemy, they are tasked with a thankless job that I’m glad I don’t have to do .

I agree, but the police bosses are a different breed than the cops you meet on the street. cahill is a classic example, cunning, not afraid to bullshit to get his way etc etc.

Originally Posted by 40mm

I agree, but the police bosses are a different breed than the cops you meet on the street. cahill is a classic example, cunning, not afraid to bullshit to get his way etc etc.

I can 100% agree with that mate. Totally different breed. And don’t get me wrong there are bad cops at the low level too with this same mad agenda but there’s also the bloody good blokes out there protecting the streets while we sleep. I just don’t want them to be thrown out with the bath water

Seems like a bit of a target... I have seen some fairly light weight female cops on police ten 7.... How long until she gets tackled and he gun taken off her.... Wouldn't happen if it was in the car in the lock box.

Originally Posted by mawzer308

Yes we have been well and truly shafted with this new legislation. We aren't the ones who are responding to potentially dangersous situations when called out though.

yeah right a week before we (of the blue team)took on a mad prick in eastern chch armed with a 12g.during this our optical sighted remington fieldmaster .223 semi automatic rifles managed to put 5 rounds(actually found) into a community centre and a bloody tree.so after the locals complained we gifted some tucker (KOHA and sycophantic words) .what did PM skull and I must Dash Nash police minister) plus PNHQ shiny arsed biro pushers do -6 7/8 SFA.
sunshine no way am i gonna trust some spotty herbert(tits or not)fresh out of police college toting any sort of firearms shit!I heard an ol dig copper on the coast say any policeman toting a taser should first take 5 mins to place their balls or lady equivalent balls on a heavy duty electric fence ,just to get an idea of the firepower. Besides IMHO bringing tears to a glass eye i reckoned he obviously had whats sadly lacking these days common fucking sense!

On ANZAC day i as an ex TF soldlier and wearing my newly reconstructed set of my late father WW@medals plus my own ,intend to march and honour those who fought and made the supreme sacrifice to stop smarmy arsed dictators like this current mob ,and ensure we had our democratic freedoms.
FYI Late Hon Duncan Mcintyre national MP,minister of the crown ,Hon Col NZ Scottish Armoured Corp ,and wait for it -supervisor of one corporal robert david muldoon nz cavalry,as he sat his accountancy final exams in the theatre 2nd NZEF italian campaign,together once sat in our house of representatives and conducted themselves as gentlemen , not this bloody 3 ring circus. my father drove in ammo convoys to supply the nz 25pdrs as they pounded the shit out of Cassino town in the cassino battle .
would they tolerate the limpwristed manipulative pricks we call govt now _i think not .Sir Rob Muldoon being the counterpuncher he was and a shrewd as a shithouse monkey would be ripping new arseholes right left and centre including NZ farts whiskey winnie who models himself on muldoon -mores the pity. BTW-the rozzers arent the only ones who faces dangerous pricks -as a 48yr veterasn of mental health nursing,ive dealt with more than a few that would have your latte curdlin and thats with bare fucking hands .the cops and prison officers used to shake their heads in amazement
On exercise golden fleece in `1991i had a conversation with an SAS guy who matter of factly looked at me and said "shit bro i couldnt do your job itd scare the crap outa me" raising an eyebrow and barely containing myself i politely reminded him his chosen role in life had fuck all to do with placating nice people either!
last week i completed a course in restraint yup I could knot you up so you could fit beside your xmas turkey in his dish as he bastes in the oven.Ive seen things and been in rooms with things you'd never imagine in your worst nightmare. have i paid a price yes and so have many others in the nursing profession -what have wellingtons gutless wonders done ZERO to protect us -despite promises. oh and you want irony -these pricks banned "dangerous guns: but are happily gonna legalise marijuana."its a health problen says fatso clark and the skull.yup drop ya dacks prepared to be rogered honest god fearing taxpayers cause this wee SNAFU is gonna see health costs rise faster than a cape caneveral rocket launch and the socialist bludgers and mad greenie bastards would have a cent to contribute!
lets wait for the first UD on the job ..should that happen on ANZAC day-well It will be a joy to watch the assorted carrots try to explain it away.

Originally Posted by mawzer308

Yes we have been well and truly shafted with this new legislation. We aren't the ones who are responding to potentially dangersous situations when called out though.

There will not be any dangerous situs once the firearms have been collected? Jacinda said “everything” will be safer? Less reason to arm cops. Unless it’s about intimidation?

Originally Posted by Sako851

The “threat level” isn’t the only reason police need to carry firearms. Now general arming every officer may be a negative because it would be rather easy to overpower a solo female cop and take her side arm.
But I believe in general arming of the police of those members who have had more training in retention of a sidearm.

The other threat police face are gang members with firearms. It is unbelievable how many gang members are in possession of firearms in their footwells, down the side of their car doors or in their boots of the vehicle. An unarmed officer has to approach these situations and then once they know there is a threat it could be far too late..
the police are here to protect he public. While at the moment it sucks they have taken the wrong side of the firearms argument it DOES NOT make them our enemy.

I am sorry disappointed in the police leaderships and also Chris Cahills to disarm law abiding citizens but that doesn’t make the average cop on the street a bad guy who wants to take your guns. There are police also who will be losing their sport and firearms and these individual attacks or remarks against a single police officer are a little stupid. That cop you take the piss out of for being armed may be on our side of the argument and you don’t even know it. Maybe she will have to take action with a firearm against an active shooter later that night or some idiot stomping someone’s head in. Would we complain about the arming then?

The I am trying to make is that cops are individuals as well. Just because the leadership has backed the MSSA ban doesn’t mean the cop does. It would be unfair for the police that disagree with the ban have to leave their employment just to prove how disgusting they think it is.

How about we be a democracy and put the ban to a vote. Hats our real problem here. So we as a society can decide what rules and laws we want in this country.

The front line officers, all respect to them, have a choice. If they agree to be a police officer, they have to uphold the law as they are sworn to do. If they don’t like the law/s they have to uphold, they resign/retire. Concentration camp guards back in the last big dust up had the same choices.... Not saying the choices are great..but still are choices.


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Originally Posted by 40mm

forget all that, blonde, brunette or the elusive red?

She was blonde and appeared quite nice. No tactical awareness though as she bent down to study the selection of cream buns. Her thumb-snap holster was about 18" in front of me. I don't have a problem with cops carrying guns on duty but I question the need to wear it into a bakery to buy lunch when there is a perfectly good lock-box in the front of her car. Similarly, if a cop is armed when they visit me (I get a few visits for paperwork etc.) then they don't come inside. They often visit wearing empty holsters which is fine. It is just good manners.

I would feel more at ease around our Police if they had more training. I'm sure they would too.