Thread: Bolt security

Just being cheeky, My favourite traveling companion is a Ruger No1 in 6mmBR, block out while on the move couple of minutes and a screwdriver to reinstall
like to see said scumbag source a new block or ammo at the local gunshop it they did carry 6mmBR ammo it would not chamber as it has a tight neck, The answer
is only travel with a wildcat of some sort that won't chamber factory ammo,
My rifle travels in the boot and the ammo is under the front seat, would a locked box bolted to the chassis rails be considered ok by brother Plod my car as a great
alarm system and is immobilised when the key is removed the battery cables run inside the car making it difficult to cut the power.

Back in the day, I used to put the HT-lead in my pocket, then I progressed to a steering-wheel lock and only in the last 8yrs, vehicle insurance (which literally paid-off last year). I still use the St-whl-lock, cos I know crims will take the easiest-target unless stealing-to-order. I dont know how many pockets I've ripped from carrying a bolt, but a few. I was more interested in how-far, the letter-of-the Law was taken, and realise inoperative firearms can be used for crime, as can replicas, water-pistols and bluffing. I have heard of people having a Licence-suspension over "unattended" firearms that have been stolen. If I was The Plod, I'd be happy-as, that a Crim got an incomplete firearm, rather than a complete one. I'm sure there exists, some deviant individual, amassing "parts", for the chance of completing something ,but I Know that the vast majority(of incomplete ones) are thrown in rivers, according to Police I've spoken to...total stupidity..and waste. I guess as the average IQ continues to drop, we are only going to see more of it.. though, on a lighter-note, we could raise the IQ here,and in Australia, by sending a few back over the Ditch... ( in my defence, I do know ;2 Aussies, 4 Japanese, 5 Latvians, 1 and a half Russians, numerous boat-people and a Dwarf...just saying)

I was wondering how much trouble I should go to , storing my bolts. Just drop it in the bottom of the undies drawer (No ! don't tell me you do this ...) or go the whole concealed second safe way ?

Anyway, moving away from the vehicle scenario, a lot of injuries inflicted with firearms are not done by criminal people. They are accidents, unlicensed children or others gaining access to a weapon and of course suicides. Storing bolts and ammo separately if done thoughtfully could help keep these at low levels.

I have 2 safes; and run two calibers in short and long guns. Ammo is presently locked away but not in a safe. I am wondering aloud whether putting one caliber of ammo in one safe where the short gun cannot fire it, and t'other caliber in the other safe where the long gun cannot fire it, would be improved security all around and not contravene the Arms Act wot sez, basically, do not store ammo with guns.

You could do that if both rifles are made inoperable and there is no separate internal lockup for the ammo. The best way would be to have separate external lock-ups for the bolts and ammo. However, that's not currently required and would obviously cost more; a bane to the many thousands of tight arses out there.

Thanks 10R. I was probably overthinking it. When I fill the short gun safe with ammo it's completely unbudgeable even if 'they' could pride the anchors out of the concrete, then being so heavy. But, can't do that for the long gun safe. So I'll just keep stashing the ammo separately in locked cases.

I'm getting my FAL license right now. Had the interview today. The person looked at my new gun safe and said it was secured acceptably as it's bolted to wall and floor. Said fixed to two surfaces was a must.
I said I'd put ammo in the gun safes inner locked box & asked if ok to have bolt there too. They said no, it's for knives, GPS etc only and ammunition should be in a seperate secured steel box in another part of house (another room, in roofspace etc). Said steel ammo box or steel tool box, mini safe is ok. Said have another for the bolt. Said preference is for 3 locked locations e.g. disabled rifle, ammo, bolt. Said I should be only person in the hosue who knows where the keys are & to add disposal instructions to my will during next update, plus in will say where the keys are located. Seems a bit OTT but that's what I was told today.

I had my renewal about a year or two ago, the guy had similar comments - no to having ammo and bolts in the internal locker, he said if someone steals the safe they have it all. And arranging someone with a FAL to secure firearms in the event of death, etc.
I got a safe off TM or the 1-day website for ammo and bolts, itsroughly 50cm x 35 x 35, it is hidden in another room. It quite handy for other valuable bits and pieces too, and for keeping chocolate away from the kids

I have heard secondhand of someone not getting their renewal because they were away and their wife opened the gun safe for the inspection, and she didn't have a FAL.

Originally Posted by uk_exile

I'm getting my FAL license right now. Had the interview today. The person looked at my new gun safe and said it was secured acceptably as it's bolted to wall and floor. Said fixed to two surfaces was a must.
I said I'd put ammo in the gun safes inner locked box & asked if ok to have bolt there too. They said no, it's for knives, GPS etc only and ammunition should be in a seperate secured steel box in another part of house (another room, in roofspace etc). Said steel ammo box or steel tool box, mini safe is ok. Said have another for the bolt. Said preference is for 3 locked locations e.g. disabled rifle, ammo, bolt. Said I should be only person in the hosue who knows where the keys are & to add disposal instructions to my will during next update, plus in will say where the keys are located. Seems a bit OTT but that's what I was told today.

This is logical but perhaps not in the regulations yet ? The bar is gradually being raised. In the past, inspectors have shown studied disinterest in security for my bolt and ammo.

For storing ammo, you need to consider fire safety, keeping it in good condition and volume of storage required, as well as security from theft or "borrowing" .

The weak point for multiple safes is the keys. Resettable combination locks would be better.

Originally Posted by Bagheera

For storing ammo, you need to consider fire safety, keeping it in good condition and volume of storage required.

Loaded ammunition isn't really a fire safety concern, stored gun powder is though.

Seems to be a local AO making it up as he / she / xe sees fit. All safes and lockboxes are, is delay; knowing my safe is anchored in two dimensions into the basement wall, a determined thief with a sledgehammer and crowbar and say thirty minutes' quiet time (thieves not tending to regular cardio IMO) could have it out and gone down the road to break into with a gas-axe. My ammo is stored in locked Pelican cases away from the safes, but it's not highly concealed, just not easily visible.

I think we would all have less concerns about home security if the dratted judiciary spent more time keeping thieves out of circulation - that is, if the police even bothered to turn up at burglaries in the first place. My view of burglars is that they are also thieves of my time - I would have spent xx weeks and yy months of my life working to earn what they stole, (and no insurance does not compensate for all losses) and so I want them spending xx years of their lives to make up for it. Rehab, pfui. Can come after retributive punishment.

Excuse me, this rant now over. Carry on :-)

Frankly, this whole thread is a waste of time. There is nothing in the Arms Act or the Regulations about separating bolts from rifles and storing them separately, nor is there any requirement to have ammunition locked in any form of safe. The ammunition requirements are that it shall be stored separately from the firearms and out of the reach of children. The top of a cupboard in another room is perfectly fine. Bolts and rifles should never be separated except for cleaning purposes. The same applies to magazines. Bending over to accept unlawful demands from ill-informed Arms Officers is nothing more than showing a complete lack of intestinal fortitude, and it encourages them to believe that are actually in the right! Comply with the law but don't demean yourself by accepting unlawful crap from public servants!

Diverting over to ammunition storage ...

Here's the relevant bit from the Arms Regulations 1992 reprint 2013:


19 Conditions relating to security precautions
(1) Every firearms licence shall be subject to the following condi- tions:
(a) the holder shall not put a firearm in such a place that a young child has ready access to it:
(b) the holder, where he or she has both a firearm and am- munition for it in his or her possession, either—
(i) shall take reasonable steps to ensure that the am-
munition is not stored in such a way that a person who obtains access to the firearm also obtains ac- cess to the ammunition; or
(ii) shall ensure that, where the ammunition is stored with the firearm, the firearm is not capable of being discharged:
(c) the holder shall take reasonable steps to ensure that any firearm in the holder’s possession is secured against theft:
(the reasonable precautions are in section 2 and have been discussed often on here so I don't want to start again on this thread.)

Again, the bolt is not mentioned but is indirectly referred to by "the firearm is not capable of being discharged".
So:
As a baseline, storing ammunition inside a gun safe inside a further locked compartment is no good, because apparently the whole safe is often taken.
The regulations explicitly permit ammunition to be stored with firearms, provided the firearm is not capable of being discharged. The required security for bolts is not specified.
The regulation refers to "ammunition for it" so it could arguably be legal to store other ammunition with the firearm, as described above.
There seems to be no reference to ammunition that is stored separately from the firearm.

Originally Posted by uk_exile

I'm getting my FAL license right now. Had the interview today. The person looked at my new gun safe and said it was secured acceptably as it's bolted to wall and floor. Said fixed to two surfaces was a must.
I said I'd put ammo in the gun safes inner locked box & asked if ok to have bolt there too. They said no, it's for knives, GPS etc only and ammunition should be in a seperate secured steel box in another part of house (another room, in roofspace etc). Said steel ammo box or steel tool box, mini safe is ok. Said have another for the bolt. Said preference is for 3 locked locations e.g. disabled rifle, ammo, bolt. Said I should be only person in the hosue who knows where the keys are & to add disposal instructions to my will during next update, plus in will say where the keys are located. Seems a bit OTT but that's what I was told today.

I have found generally the interviewers/ security inspector generally suffer from bouts of "making shit up on the spot" I have always countered with " I have mine secured according to what the the Arms Act says and if they are not happy with that then they could get the local AO to give me a call so we can discuss.......................never had a call yet

Actually I think my security is a bit OTT but I like my stuff

Agree with you Mikee. My ammo is stored in padlocked Pelican cases just because I like to know it can't be accessed quickly by people who should not have it.

Also, no-one - even The Most Senior Wife - knows where said cases are; nor where safe keys and Pelican padlock keys are kept. Hint; I reckon it would take The Nefarious minimum 8 hours to find them key in the house even with 4 searchers and a lot of lateral thinking.

The gun safes are of course obvious if you get entry to the basement, because they look like gun safes, duh, but by the time some lowlife enters my basement uninvited, xe has already transgressed grievously.

But I take those precautions because I want to, not because of hoplophobes.

I think many AOs have been infected by the Chris Cahill virus... IMO. YMMV as they say.