Thread: Buying Ammo

When I buy ammo off friends who work at gun shops, I still show them me license, not because it's the done thing, but because it's the bloody law.

Originally Posted by Tommy

When I buy ammo off friends who work at gun shops, I still show them me license, not because it's the done thing, but because it's the bloody law.

Where is it law that you must show your licence?

I think its still a good thing that they are checking licenses whether its required by law or not. Its all about accountability not being trustworthy. Besides if it stops someone that isn't licensed from buying ammo or for that matter an unlicensed person of questionable character from getting access to ammo thats got to be a good thing.

As much as Guncity is maligned online, I have purchased specials from there and they have not missed asking to sight my license. That is to their credit. With the number of staff an volume of sales a) they have a lot to lose if they get it wrong, and b) I am pretty sure they have sent a lot of time making sure their procedures are up to scratch.

big deep breaths everyone.
By the letter of the law I would suggest that while theoretically you may not have to produce it, and only be a holder of a current FAL, practically in a store environment the best way to CYA as a seller is to ask for it to be produced. Get in the habit and then the shit doesn't hit the fan on the one time you don't and some-one is beating the system. As a responsible FAl holder it isn't really a problem is it? @systolic yup I agree with you about the ammo at the gun club but you would have pretty good cause in that situation.
Guy walking off the street into a gun store, not so much.

+1

Amazing.......I just ordered 1000 rounds of Winchester skeet rounds,400 rounds of HMR 17,60 rounds Remington 300WSM.......ALL on the net,with credit card .....and had it.......waited for it.........delivered for FREE......no license,no ID.....

Originally Posted by A330driver

Amazing.......I just ordered 1000 rounds of Winchester skeet rounds,400 rounds of HMR 17,60 rounds Remington 300WSM.......ALL on the net,with credit card .....and had it.......waited for it.........delivered for FREE......no license,no ID.....

@A330driver

Capitalism rules over there. Whether it's all good, hmm.

Get over it mate... it’s all good... was being merely facetious....it has always been where you are located... merely pointing out my position

the entirety of the section says this:

Section 43(3)(a): amended, on 1 November 1992, by section 20(b) of the Arms Amendment Act 1992 (1992 No 95).

43A Mail order sale of firearm or ammunition
(1)
Every person commits an offence and is liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $1,000 who sells by mail order a firearm or any ammunition for a firearm or restricted weapon otherwise than pursuant to a written order—
(a)
signed by the purchaser; and
(b)
bearing an endorsement signed by a member of the Police and stating that the member of the Police—
(i)
has inspected the purchaser’s firearms licence; and
(ii)
is satisfied that the purchaser is a fit and proper person to purchase that firearm or ammunition.
(2)
Nothing in this section applies in relation to—
(a)
any pistol, restricted weapon, or military style semi-automatic firearm; or
(b)
any ammunition for a firearm to which paragraph (a) or paragraph (b) or paragraph (c) of section 22(1) applies.
Section 43A: inserted, on 1 November 1992, by section 21 of the Arms Amendment Act 1992 (1992 No 95).

Section 43A(1): amended, on 1 July 2013, by section 413 of the Criminal Procedure Act 2011 (2011 No 81).

43B Restriction on sales of ammunition
(1)
Every person commits an offence and is liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $1,000 who sells or supplies ammunition for any firearm or restricted weapon to a person who is not—
(a)
the holder of a firearms licence; or
(b)
a licensed dealer.
(2)
In any prosecution for an offence against subsection (1) in which it is proved that the defendant sold or supplied ammunition for a firearm or restricted weapon to any person, the burden of proving that that person was—
(a)
the holder of a firearms licence; or
(b)
a licensed dealer,—
shall lie on the defendant.

(3)
It is a good defence to a prosecution for an offence against subsection (1) if the defendant proves—
(a)
that the ammunition was supplied to a person for use under the immediate supervision of the holder of a firearms licence; and
(b)
that at all times while the person to whom the ammunition was supplied was in possession of the ammunition, that person was under the immediate supervision of the holder of a firearms licence.
(4)
A defendant may, in the case of a prosecution for an offence against subsection (1), discharge the burden of proof placed on the defendant by subsection (2) by proving that the defendant took reasonable steps to ascertain whether the person to whom the ammunition was sold or supplied was—
(a)
the holder of a firearms licence; or
(b)
a licensed dealer.
(5)
Nothing in this section applies in relation to any ammunition for a firearm to which paragraph (a) or paragraph (b) or paragraph (c) of section 22(1) applies.

So, in event of an alleged breach, the onus is on the shop to prove the purchaser was a licence holder, and if the shop did take reasonable steps to ensure the purchaser was licensed then it is OK.

Insofar as complying with the law, I do not see any better way to ask the purchaser to produce the license.

It's plain common sense that proof of having a FAL in the first instance is the FAL card. It even says New Zealand Firearms Licence with your picture on it. I doubt many shop staff are going to go to the trouble of contacting an Arms Officer to validate that you're a firearms licence holder and also obtain proof that you are who you say you are. Especially when the shop is busy.

I've walked into at least two gun shops to buy ammo and had forgotten my card. The staff had know issue validating that I am a license holder. A phone call to the AO and 1 minute later, and I was on my way.

In regards to our history, the card is a relatively new thing - But it's not the actual licence of the person.

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

In regards to our history, the card is a relatively new thing - But it's not the actual licence of the person.

True, but the card does say, "New Zealand Firearms Licence" not "New Zealand Firearms Licence Holder".

Originally Posted by 10-Ring

True, but the card does say, "New Zealand Firearms Licence" not "New Zealand Firearms Licence Holder".

Are you sure about that?

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

Are you sure about that?

Ah! Good one. It says both.