Thread: Change of Address requirements

Originally Posted by blip

Yea its not that hard if you really want it. I hope we dont get to the point where they are being taken at gun point

There's that many floating around under the radar scum doesn't need to do that with Joe Average.
Scum will be standing over other scum at gun point though

Originally Posted by PadLo

A fella the missus works with had his guns and safe stolen a while back, they just used an electric chainsaw and took the fixings out with the safe.

The required level of security should stop the casual thief. Someone who might steal an unsecured firearm, bolt and ammunition.

The serious thief will come either appropriate tools to open (or steal) your safe(s) or their own weapon(s) to threaten you &/or your family. If sufficiently threatened I'd give up my keys and left them have what they want.

When vetted recently I said that to the vetter and they agreed with my analysis and approved my security.

Some wit many years ago gave an address for the road leading to Mt Cook. Police years later tracked him down and his explanation ... I meant Mt Cook a Wellington suburb.

Worthwhile noting again the requirements of the Hazardous Substances and New Organisms Act - Class 1 material cannot be stored in a dwelling house (quantity any). Ammunition is Class 1.4S - quantity any.

So if the Police or Firearms outfit staff are requiring your ammunition container to be securely fixed to the house, it's rather interesting. I have a vested interest in this as a firefighter and seeing what reasonable quantities of ammo gassing off can do if your place is involved in a fire - it really isn't something you need to help get going! I also have a rather dim view of the advice some people are getting that their ammo needs to be secured in a safe - please do not do this as I really do not like things that go bang being contained in one place where they can all go bang together spitting bits of metal safe in all directions. It actually gives me the shits to be fair. If you must use a steel safe, grind vents in the back of it against the wall so any gasses being released in the event of a fire can dissipate without building up pressure to the point the safe ruptures and bits fly off.

Originally Posted by No.3

Worthwhile noting again the requirements of the Hazardous Substances and New Organisms Act - Class 1 material cannot be stored in a dwelling house (quantity any). Ammunition is Class 1.4S - quantity any.

So if the Police or Firearms outfit staff are requiring your ammunition container to be securely fixed to the house, it's rather interesting. I have a vested interest in this as a firefighter and seeing what reasonable quantities of ammo gassing off can do if your place is involved in a fire - it really isn't something you need to help get going! I also have a rather dim view of the advice some people are getting that their ammo needs to be secured in a safe - please do not do this as I really do not like things that go bang being contained in one place where they can all go bang together spitting bits of metal safe in all directions. It actually gives me the shits to be fair. If you must use a steel safe, grind vents in the back of it against the wall so any gasses being released in the event of a fire can dissipate without building up pressure to the point the safe ruptures and bits fly off.

Good points most ammo safes have fixing holes in the back and mine has 2 in the bottom as well that I drilled, one set is usually used to secure it the other set are mostly kept empty

If you want definitive reading on ammunition in fires - read Hatchers Notebook starting at page 531 through to 540. That will dispell many untruths about small arms ammunition in fires

Originally Posted by stug

I moved house 7-8 weeks ago. Did my change of address and registered my firearms. Haven’t heard anything about an inspection

I’m up to 14mths so far, nothing heard.

Originally Posted by No.3

Worthwhile noting again the requirements of the Hazardous Substances and New Organisms Act - Class 1 material cannot be stored in a dwelling house (quantity any). Ammunition is Class 1.4S - quantity any.

So if the Police or Firearms outfit staff are requiring your ammunition container to be securely fixed to the house, it's rather interesting. I have a vested interest in this as a firefighter and seeing what reasonable quantities of ammo gassing off can do if your place is involved in a fire - it really isn't something you need to help get going! I also have a rather dim view of the advice some people are getting that their ammo needs to be secured in a safe - please do not do this as I really do not like things that go bang being contained in one place where they can all go bang together spitting bits of metal safe in all directions. It actually gives me the shits to be fair. If you must use a steel safe, grind vents in the back of it against the wall so any gasses being released in the event of a fire can dissipate without building up pressure to the point the safe ruptures and bits fly off.

Fire proof safe ok in your book?

Originally Posted by 308

Fire proof safe ok in your book?

Depends on the rating and what's stored around it. A fire proof safe is rated to a temperature exposure/time before that heat penetrates into the interior of the safe - so if you go over the rating the internals get heated quicker. Generally, modern houses (last few years of construction) with new standard wiring are pretty good for systems failures as the cause of ignition but you still get the 'human factor' as a cause (i.e. people doing unsafe things for whatever reason). Also, modern furnishings and internals are quite problematic as fuel loading so as a general rule my recommendation is store anything that burns (including LPG bottles/cannisters, fuel containers, aerosols etc etc) out of the house and in a separate outbuilding away from ignition sources. Also, as far as ammo and things that are designed to create a lot of pressure when they expand again - my advice - is to create venting pathways if they are solid and reasonably well-sealed containers. Basically it's minimising the risk of making a bad situation worse should you have a fire. Worth noting that even the army-type standard steel ammo box is designed to deform the sides out from under the lid seal to prevent it popping under pressure (an intended weakness).

There isn't a 'projectile hazard' from the bullets as such, as the case won't contain the pressure in a fire like it will if supported by a rifle chamber - testing has shown that at around 1-1.5m anything projecting out from an uncontained fire shouldn't penetrate firefighter's protective clothing but if you pile a heap of rounds together and pack them into a sealed box that will allow the gas pressure to rise until the box fails you could run into shrapnel problems.

Having seen what the remains of a shed fire looked like with an ammo cupboard involved (not the cause of the fire) the damage is not insignificant and was surprising. Worse than the point of ignition, and partially destroyed a section of block wall.

And also, worth pointing out the volume of ammo is a key variable in terms of 'potential'. 20 rounds of mid size rifle ammo is meh, a few thousand magnum rounds is a whole nuther level...

Originally Posted by No.3

Depends on the rating and what's stored around it. A fire proof safe is rated to a temperature exposure/time before that heat penetrates into the interior of the safe - so if you go over the rating the internals get heated quicker. Generally, modern houses (last few years of construction) with new standard wiring are pretty good for systems failures as the cause of ignition but you still get the 'human factor' as a cause (i.e. people doing unsafe things for whatever reason). Also, modern furnishings and internals are quite problematic as fuel loading so as a general rule my recommendation is store anything that burns (including LPG bottles/cannisters, fuel containers, aerosols etc etc) out of the house and in a separate outbuilding away from ignition sources. Also, as far as ammo and things that are designed to create a lot of pressure when they expand again - my advice - is to create venting pathways if they are solid and reasonably well-sealed containers. Basically it's minimising the risk of making a bad situation worse should you have a fire. Worth noting that even the army-type standard steel ammo box is designed to deform the sides out from under the lid seal to prevent it popping under pressure (an intended weakness).

There isn't a 'projectile hazard' from the bullets as such, as the case won't contain the pressure in a fire like it will if supported by a rifle chamber - testing has shown that at around 1-1.5m anything projecting out from an uncontained fire shouldn't penetrate firefighter's protective clothing but if you pile a heap of rounds together and pack them into a sealed box that will allow the gas pressure to rise until the box fails you could run into shrapnel problems.

Having seen what the remains of a shed fire looked like with an ammo cupboard involved (not the cause of the fire) the damage is not insignificant and was surprising. Worse than the point of ignition, and partially destroyed a section of block wall.

And also, worth pointing out the volume of ammo is a key variable in terms of 'potential'. 20 rounds of mid size rifle ammo is meh, a few thousand magnum rounds is a whole nuther level...

Fair points all

In the new place I will keep bulk powder in an outbuilding, likewise all of the gas cylinders