Thread: Comercial flights with Black Powder ?

I know there have been a few posts about flying with firearms recently and some of the issues around that

But does anyone have any first hand experience of flying on Air NZ with loaded Black Powder Cartridge's or Loose Black Powder ?
Or do you just look it all up in the hard case and they don't have a clue what it all is ?
Or should I arrange for some loose black powder of the brand I like to use and the gun is regulated for to be on hand at my destination ?

It's about time I went to the other island and poached some of their cunning little deer.
Its been 10 years since I last did
Where did those years go
Bloody earth quakes have a bit to answer for

Must be packed, not carried on board, a link to their site and although it is slanted at Off Shore, I very much doubt that it would be different for internal flights.

https://tinyurl.com/y4crjnlq

The ICAO standard allows the carriage of dangerous goods in limited quantities by air, hence the 5 Kg limit and packaging requirements.
Every aviation authority and airline bases their carriage policy on this standard.
Loaded BP metallic cartridges ‘could’ be packaged as per the standard and their staff would be none the wiser.
Loose powder would be more hassle than it’s worth trying to consign, does black powder even have a UN number?
For the amount this comes up, flying with firearms and ammunition deserves its own stick thread.

Schedule 2. ‘Safety Ammunition’:
Sporting ammunition is UN0014 1.4S, ‘whether smokeless or black powder, centrefire or rimfire’. So yes when declared and packaged to meet the airlines policy (This case Air NZ as per link above).
Schedule 3. ‘Other Explosives’
Loose Black powder is UN0027. 1.1D... so no.

Originally Posted by Moutere

Schedule 2. ‘Safety Ammunition’:
Sporting ammunition is UN0014 1.4S, ‘whether smokeless or black powder, centrefire or rimfire’. So yes when declared and packaged to meet the airlines policy (This case Air NZ as per link above).
Schedule 3. ‘Other Explosives’
Loose Black powder is UN0027. 1.1D... so no.

Thanks @Moutere that covers it nicely

So declare and take ammo for 500 BPE and get friend to buy in FFG and FFFG for the muzzleloaders depending on which one I take

If you're coming to shoot sika, give me a call when you get to Taupo and I'll give you a handfull of BP.

Originally Posted by akaroa1

Thanks @Moutere that covers it nicely

So declare and take ammo for 500 BPE and get friend to buy in FFG and FFFG for the muzzleloaders depending on which one I take

That’s how I would go about it, also engage with them early in case it’s a bit left field for them. Don’t leave it to check in.
Maybe pay some thought on how you might demonstrate the muzzle loader is unloaded when you check in. Also see if they require it to be disabled in some manner. ie in your case not as simple as removing the bolt or breaking an action.

Airlines are extremely risk adverse to fire, so if it’s flintlock that may present the need for a simple work around too.

Got into a huge drama with a cop at Auckland Airport when I was returning to Oz with my PH Muzzle Loader. He kept saying to me over and over, voice getting loader, so that people in the vicinity could hear, "break the weapon so that I can confirm it is not loaded". I tried to explain to him it was a muzzle loader and that wasn't how they worked. He wouldn't have a bit of it. To make things worse there was an Oz there at the same time waiting for his Ruger #1 to be checked. He chimed in with "ya can't break it mate, it's a muzzle loader" which only made the situation worse. The cop continued to back himself into a corner until saved by a colleague who was gun savvy.

You maybe could demonstrate by measuring off the ramrod on the outside and then putting it down the bore showing them that it goes right to the plug, but I doubt they would understand then.
Or you could put your mouth over the muzzle and blow out thru the nipple. That act should get you carted away pronto.

I travelled backwards and forwards several times between Oz with firearms and that was the only time I was hassled.
The time I finally returned I had 3 rifles and a shotgun with me. Man I got super quick passage thru my own lane with no interest at all shown in my other baggage.

On the subject of ammo etc on a plane, doesn't the flight captain have an overriding say whether it gets carried. One of our airline pilots on the forum may be able to answer that.

The Pilot in Command (Captain) may refuse carriage of any dangerous goods, but carriage of dangerous goods is commonplace and so long as they are declared and appropriately packaged it is unlikely they would be refused.

All dangerous goods except for exempted passenger commodity type items must be correctly packaged, labeled, and declared. The exempted items cover things like aerosols (such as hairspray), lithium ion batteries contained within some electronic item, and ammunition.

These exempted items are only exempt from the dangerous goods regulations if carried in limited quantities - hence the 5kg limit for ammunition.

By declaring dangerous goods you enable them to be placed on the aircraft in a position where they are not placed next to other dangerous goods they are not compatible with. For instance you wouldn’t place a flammable liquid or gas in the same hold as compressed oxygen.

One of the biggest dangers is the lithium ion battery. They are in everything nowadays, and just have a look on YouTube at what happens with a thermal runaway with one of these. So you put your undeclared black powder in your gun case and it gets put on a suitcase containing a lithium ion battery that has a thermal runaway inflight, then you’ve just killed 180 odd people on a domestic flight.

Also be aware that all luggage is x-rayed at the main NZ airports these days, a mate had lighters taken out of his pack, another member here had his cooker taken.

yes and I lost some power banks transiting though Auckland.

Also declare.you PLB if you have one.
And make sure once you book your ticket and purchase an extra bag for you gun case that you phone them and tell them you will be carting a gun and ammo.
My local airport was a pain as 99% of passengers it sees are on government, local body, or health department tickets. They had no idea.
Queenstown was more concerned about my walking pole and PLB than the rifle or ammo.
Z

Yes as I said in this thread on flying with guns.
https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....ml#post1120218
BP I’d say would be a no.
Zimmer that Story is Gold and im not surprised in the slightest bit. Almost as good as when you hear someone say 100%

Originally Posted by ZQLewis

yes and I lost some power banks transiting though Auckland.

Also declare.you PLB if you have one.
And make sure once you book your ticket and purchase an extra bag for you gun case that you phone them and tell them you will be carting a gun and ammo.
My local airport was a pain as 99% of passengers it sees are on government, local body, or health department tickets. They had no idea.
Queenstown was more concerned about my walking pole and PLB than the rifle or ammo.
Z

I've been in and out of Queenstown dozens of time with firearms and never a problem, even had a dog a couple of times.
Last time the check in chick just wanted to know where I went and how long I was there and wasn't at all phased by my bucket of meat. Her hubby was a hunter and think she was looking for spot x