Thread: Could it be so simple?

Originally Posted by HNTMAD

So someone checking it's a hind at the carpark?? How do you tell if it's boned out??

Won't work in my view, reason I hunt public land is no one tells me what I can and can't shoot it is up to me

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You've missed the point, don't even try to enforce it! Its only supposed to get guys to identify their targets.

Granted that not everyone is a stickler for following rules and hell I know I could be tempted to take a hind after a fruitless weekend in the bush but I'd be checking to determine whether I'm breaking any rules before I squeeze the trigger and I bet you would too.

Even if only half of all hunters obey the rule do you not think it would make you any safer? At least you might be checked whether you have any antlers before you get shot at.

PS-I'm with ya about hunting on public land, I only have and only will.

Originally Posted by chewy69a

You've missed the point, don't even try to enforce it! Its only supposed to get guys to identify their targets.

Granted that not everyone is a stickler for following rules and hell I know I could be tempted to take a hind after a fruitless weekend in the bush but I'd be checking to determine whether I'm breaking any rules before I squeeze the trigger and I bet you would too.

Even if only half of all hunters obey the rule do you not think it would make you any safer? At least you might be checked whether you have any antlers before you get shot at.

PS-I'm with ya about hunting on public land, I only have and only will.

no point having rules if no one is going to enforce them

Originally Posted by Steve123

The problem with any rule limiting what you can shoot is DOC. Their goal is to wipe out not manage. Maybe the only way is make a DOC permit conditional on doing a target ID course and test every 5 or so years. It could be done as a condition of obtaining a licence as well.

assuming you have one. Target ID every 5 years. We all know that a deer has 4 legs and we have 2, still dont see how it will stop muppets

Hamish

Originally Posted by HNTMAD

assuming you have one. Target ID every 5 years. We all know that a deer has 4 legs and we have 2, still dont see how it will stop muppets

Hamish

It probably won't. Modern health and Safety anti common sense laws mean muppet's are immune to Darwin's theory. But what other options are there?
A simple online test as part of your permit application maybe. 10 pictures 10 correct answers. If people are doing that every three months the message might sink in.
Still less risky than the drive down at the moment anyways

Assuming you have a permit, no permit no need for a test

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Originally Posted by R93

My thoughts exactly.
I for the life of me don't understand why so called experienced hunters are shooting hinds and rat stags during the roar anyway.

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Its possible people just see things differently. While you are on a crusade to find and animal that has antlers that measure over a random self imposed limit others are happy to be out enjoying the sound of roaring stags and take home some meat. On those merits alone I don't see either as any measure of experience or lack there of.

Originally Posted by R93

Imo people that shoot other people by not identifying their target are not experienced. They are not a hunters asshole.
They are over excited and incompetent and have got away with bad habits for years.
Cognitive bias is a bullshit copout imo. It is just a scientific excuse for stupidity.

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You could be right, and then again you could be wrong. Every indecent will have factors that set it apart form the last and the root cause could vary dramatically so your assumption could be on the money for one and completely miss the target for the next. I don't know enough about the individuals to judge and I wonder which camp the shooters would have fallen into before the shootings.

Originally Posted by R93

Cognitive bias is a bullshit copout imo. It is just a scientific excuse for stupidity.

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No its not an excuse scientific or otherwise , its just trying to understand how things can get to a point where a man gets shot resting on a track or another shoots his own son. If we don't understand it then we cant prevent it.

These tragic events anger me no end and I probably should temper my pesonal opinons but I aint gunna.😆

I just really hate the experienced tag put on every incident. To me they are not experienced for a number of reasons.

Yes I understand people see things differently and are happy to shoot whatever.
Each to their own. It is just an opinion.

But knowing that hunting at that time of year increases the likely hood that you will run into others where you really don't expect them, you may, for that time period at least, employ different standards for yourself.

I personally cannot fathom misidentification between a human and animal especially with the aids we carry in the hills these days. I don't understand it and have personally never seen something in the bush, I could not identify after taking my time to do so.

And yes I have run into other hunters several times. Had someone's head pop into my scope as I was lining up a sika spiker once.

So to me at least, it is stupidity, impatience and emotion causing these tragic happenings.

How to fix this issue I have no idea, but putting a scentific term around them grates me as it seems to absolve some responsibility. It may be so and some people are more susceptible to it than others I don't know.

I mean seriously. You are on a track in a high use area and shoot someone sitting on it.
There are several decisions that must have been made that go against every reasonable ethic and rule prior to the misidentification.
So pretty fucking stupid in my book.








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Given that most incidents seem to happen during the roar period, one would have to assume that stags are the quarry. If for a set period , we were only allowed to shoot stags, I believe people would take more time to id the target.
I believe in some parts of Europe, you can only shoot stags with 6 or more points, and have to keep the head as proof. I know this aint Europe, and things are different here. But ffs..something has to change.

Im a little less animated by it, no more or less than a drunk driver killing someone on the roads or a work related death.
In terms of numbers we are talking about a fraction of one percentage point so like everything humans are involved with its going to be next to impossible to eliminate.
There are some facts that will be clear but what goes on in the heads of the shooters will only truly ever be known by them so opinions are all we have and yes I agree throwing the "experienced " tag at them all is not right but I think simply calling then all idiots isn't right either . I have no doubt that scenario fulfillment is real , how/if it relates to these shooting is still a big question but ruling it out may be a ignoring one part of a solution. Seeing it as ' absolving responsibility" is just something that's going on in your head
Iv got a bottle of taiwan built single malt the boy bought back duty free that might help you , its surprisingly good .

There is a huge responsibility in squeezing a trigger.
You are either trying to kill something or shooting an inanimate object.

Mindset should be a heap different to driving a car or a workplace scenario imo.

Apart from soldiers or police not many people go about their day with a normally higher risk of killing someone so I get your point.

Sorry but I would expect to be called an idiot and a whole lot worse if this happened to me.

You can keep your whiskey I only drink 2 brands and doubt something from Asia can compare. You are just trying to get rid of it😆




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Originally Posted by Pengy

Given that most incidents seem to happen during the roar period, one would have to assume that stags are the quarry. If for a set period , we were only allowed to shoot stags, I believe people would take more time to id the target.
I believe in some parts of Europe, you can only shoot stags with 6 or more points, and have to keep the head as proof. I know this aint Europe, and things are different here. But ffs..something has to change.

Most do happen during the roar and duck shooting because there are more people doing it over that period, most are targeting stags anyway, no restrictions on what ya can and can't shoot would work. Identification of target is the key

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Originally Posted by R93

There is a huge responsibility in squeezing a trigger.
You are either trying to kill something or shooting an inanimate object.

Mindset should be a heap different to driving a car or a workplace scenario imo.

Apart from soldiers or police not many people go about their day with a normally higher risk of killing someone so I get your point.

Sorry but I would expect to be called an idiot and a whole lot worse if this happened to me.

You can keep your whiskey I only drink 2 brands and doubt something from Asia can compare. You are just trying to get rid of it��

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Cant follow your logic at all really.

I laughed when he showed me the bottle but had to eat some humble pie after tasting. Given you've slurped every bottle Iv turned up with and probably cant remember what was on the label I rekon I can at least change your mind on Asian whiskey

Originally Posted by HNTMAD

Most do happen during the roar and duck shooting because there are more people doing it over that period, most are targeting stags anyway, no restrictions on what ya can and can't shoot would work. Identification of target is the key

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And there in lies the rub. If one has to positively identify the target as a stag, then one has to look harder before squeezing the trigger.
All of the shooters involved are adamant that they saw and shot a deer. No mention of whether they saw a stag or whatever, simply a deer.

Originally Posted by R93

I just really hate the experienced tag put on every incident. To me they are not experienced for a number of reasons.

So every hunter that shoots someone is inexperienced? How do YOU define (and differentiate) an experienced hunter from an inexperienced one? Once you've defined what an 'experienced' hunter is (time spent hunting? animals seen/shot?), does the act of mistakenly shooting a human revert the hunter back into the 'inexperienced' group?

To me, it seems like experience level and the ability to make lethal mistakes are not mutually exclusive and your logic that 'hunters that shoot hunters are not experienced' is flawed.

I think having a "rule" for only shooting a 6 point stag in the month of april is a very good idea. As said above, doesn't need to be 100% enforced just the odd check at a road end and a bit of advertising around the fact that you "might" be checked would be enough for people to 2nd guess what they are shooting and ID the target. The idea has merit.