Thread: Could we do more

I'd legalize all drugs to destroy the organised crime economy then address the issues that force people into poverty and crime. But hey lets just make gun owners get better safes cuz we're too fuckin lazy to do the above

Originally Posted by Ryan

And eliminate most of the alcohol consuming, tax paying populace? No thanks.

Dont be silly, Alcohol is not a drug! I can drink a little and not be off my head, P tends to send me spinning, Dope numbs my brain makes me sleepy gives bad breathe and makes me paranoid!! Havent tried anything else

Originally Posted by Beavis

I'd legalize all drugs to destroy the organised crime economy then address the issues that force people into poverty and crime. But hey lets just make gun owners get better safes cuz we're too fuckin lazy to do the above

We need to become more addicted to our sport

Originally Posted by Maca49

Dont be silly, Alcohol is not a drug!

Sure it is, probably the one that does the most harm in NZ

Originally Posted by res

Sure it is, probably the one that does the most harm in NZ

+1

Originally Posted by res

Sure it is, probably the one that does the most harm in NZ

Probably right, but only because the usage is so high. If other drugs that are claimed to do less harm were used as commonly (and excessively) as alcohol I think you'd probably see a much higher level of harm from them.

Bit off topic now mind you... how about I recommend people don't build or install gun safes while affected by alcohol or other drugs?

Originally Posted by Daggers_187

The problem is you need to write a specification which isn't open to interpretation and quite clearly defines the performance expected.

The difficulty with this would be one off custom safes/strongrooms. To properly test performance they would be destroyed. I think the rules as they are with an engineers report is actually quite good.

Originally Posted by GravelBen

Probably right, but only because the usage is so high. If other drugs that are claimed to do less harm were used as commonly (and excessively) as alcohol I think you'd probably see a much higher level of harm from them.

Bit off topic now mind you... how about I recommend people don't build or install gun safes while affected by alcohol or other drugs?

Inclined to agree with every part of that.

I just get pissed off when people try and claim there drug of choice is not a drug-even if half tongue in cheek like macka's.

Originally Posted by Daggers_187

Sorry, but the UK can keep it's laws in the UK thanks.

You seem to have chip on your shoulder about things in the UK, which you seem to know little about, I did not mention laws, but a BS standard for gun safes, ( NZ uses BS standards in many situations) amazingly it is less than e cat

Originally Posted by Taff

You seem to have chip on your shoulder about things in the UK, which you seem to know little about, I did not mention laws, but a BS standard for gun safes, ( NZ uses BS standards in many situations) amazingly it is less than e cat

The UK has some pretty shit gun laws we could do without.

Where have I mentioned gun laws, I know the standard of education is low in most country's but I assumed most people on here could read. Perhaps we need a BS standard for education.

Originally Posted by Beavis

What do you propose the security requirements are for all guns?

Proper steel safes that take more than a large screwdriver to open. Securely fastened to the building walls and floor.

Wooden cabinets or wardrobes could be acceptable as long as they were lined with something strong to prevent a robber simply kicking through the gib.

No crappy wooden cupboards, lockers that can be opened with a can opener, wall racks or chains through the triggerguards.

Originally Posted by Taff

You seem to have chip on your shoulder about things in the UK, which you seem to know little about, I did not mention laws, but a BS standard for gun safes, ( NZ uses BS standards in many situations) amazingly it is less than e cat

Yeah mate. I have a problem with people suggesting that any part of UK firearms legislation is an improvement on our laws and policing.

Here's a guide I found on storage of firearms in the UK.
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...ty_leaflet.pdf

Published in 2005, so maybe abit out of date.

From what I can see, it makes no mention to actual standards, only recommendations, and does not seem to be any different from New Zealand's "recommendations".

It is recommended that a cabinet should have the
following featur
es:
• It should be made from sheet steel at least 14 swg
(standard wire gauge) (2 mm) thick. All seams
should be continuously welded, or the cabinet
body formed by bend construction.

Yeah mate 2mm....that's about what most gun "safes" here are.

Lock mechanisms should be on the inside of the
cabinet. The lock should contain at least 5 levers
to BS 3621 standard or equivalent. Alternatively,
good quality hardened padlocks and staples
should be fitted to the cabinet.

Lots of the word "should" in there. Which says to me it's not actually a specification. Just a recommendation, much like how the arms code is just a guide, but not the actual law.

The most glaring difference between New Zealand security requirements is that they recommend "gun clamps" or wall racks as we would probably call them. A method of storage which is only considered moderately acceptable here.

Gun clamps
For one firearm, an alternative option to a cabinet
may be a gun clamp. It should:
• be made out of steel that is at least 14 swg
(2mm) thick;
• have seam-welded joints, or be formed by bend
construction; and
• have a lock that meets BS 3621 standard or
equivalent. Alternatively a good quality hardened
padlock should be fitted.

Lots of use of the word should. Good stuff.

Finally, it says that steel cables are also a recommended way.

Steel cables
In certain circumstances a high tensile steel cable
secured with a hardened padlock may be an
appropriate security method.

In summary - the UK appears to have the same ambiguity of storage and security standards as New Zealand. And appears not to be a suitable model for us to base our security requirements on.

The end.

BS 7558 and BS3621, is the standard the rest is drivel, you also missed out the bits regarding cables/ bars etc which states you have to have a monitored alarm system and other high security options on doors and windows. Of course we could always encourage the NZ government to spend $000,000 on drawing up a standard as you suggest, as I wrote I never said follow UK legislation on firearms, just set a standard for gun safes, without spending my dollars to reinvent the wheel.
I agree that most safes are of the same quality here, but at the moment, as we are seeing with Ecat safes they are not approved, and people are having problems with getting them signed off, at present we are not selling E cat safes due to this problem

Originally Posted by Taff

BS 7558 and BS3621, is the standard the rest is drivel

Compliance with those British standards is not legally mandated in British law. It's only recommended that you comply with them. But the firearms officer ("vetting officer" as we call them here) may, at their discretion, accept anything. If they were mandated by law, then there would be sections in legislation stating that gunsafes "shall comply with [insert standards here]."

Standard BS 7558 relates to testing methods and "withstanding attack." And not to the construction or installation of gunsafes. By mandating that "all gunsafes must comply with BS 7558", you would require independent testing, to destruction, of every gunsafe you wished to use and every installation method.

Standard BS 3621 relates to security standards of locks.

The reality is that British firearms storage law is no different to New Zealand firearms storage law.

NOTE: New Zealand already has an equivalent to BS 7558. AS/NZS 3809: 1998.

you also missed out the bits regarding cables/ bars etc which states you have to have a monitored alarm system and other high security options on doors and windows.

Please cite the legislation which states that you "shall" or "must" have a monitored alarm system.