Thread: E cat safe/safe room options

Originally Posted by systolic

It never takes long for some paranoid people to think any discussions about controls on guns, or proper security, are a huge conspiracy to disarm or enslave people.

Just because they are paranoid, does not make them wrong.....Are they paranoid if it turns out that they really are being targeted?

From Wikipedia: Paranoia is a thought process believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of delusion and irrationality.

It still amazes me how much people jump up and down at the slightest hint of registration, ignoring the fact that for years there has been a gun registry running in this country and the sky hasn't fallen and the government hasn't arrived in force to take them.

Originally Posted by Savage1

From Wikipedia: Paranoia is a thought process believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of delusion and irrationality.

It still amazes me how much people jump up and down at the slightest hint of registration, ignoring the fact that for years there has been a gun registry running in this country and the sky hasn't fallen and the government hasn't arrived in force to take them.

Still doesn't deter from the fact the registration is utterly USELESS.

Originally Posted by Jexla

Still doesn't deter from the fact the registration is utterly USELESS.

I've actually found it quite useful on a number of occasions prosecuting offenders and returning stolen weapons, but hey, what would I know.

Originally Posted by Savage1

I've actually found it quite useful on a number of occasions prosecuting offenders and returning stolen weapons, but hey, what would I know.

That must be why the canadians stuck with it.

I cant help but think that putting the money spent on registration, towards resolving the appalling 7% burglary resolution rate, would have a greater impact in reducing firearms crime, and burglary overall.

Sorry, that was a bit of a snarky post. Overall I dont have any issues with the police doing their jobs, I know several detectives and officers around the country. Their head shed seems intent on destroying any good will from the public however, and as a result trust in the nz police, particularly if you are one of those evil firearms license holders, is waning.

[QUOTE=Savage1;564554]From Wikipedia: Paranoia is a thought process believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of delusion and irrationality.

It still amazes me how much people jump up and down at the slightest hint of registration, ignoring the fact that for years there has been a gun registry running in this country and the sky hasn't fallen and the government hasn't arrived in force to take them.[/QUOTE

In 2000 George Hawkins, then Minister of Police, announced in the Herald they were going to buy back MSSA's and had $20m to do so. Right then and there the honest people who registered their MSSA's were looking at being rewarded for their honesty by having their guns taken off them. George must have been off his medicine because fortunately nothing came of it. The use of registration to confiscate firearms has happened in Canada, Australia and the U.K. Why would you want to make it easier for that to happen in NZ through universal registration? The NZ Police abandoned registration because by their own admission it was effectively useless for solving armed crime and was so error ridden as to be useless. It cost Canada billions and they ditched it. As for using it to return stolen firearms, you want to bring in a system that costs millions a year to run to return a few thousand dollars of stolen property? Tell you what, put that in a business case to treasury and let me know how you get on.

Just to add to the above that as long as I can remember, every single firearm in South Africa has had and continues to be registered. It has done absolutely zero to minimize crime simply because they scratch the serials off - why would a criminal worth his salt want to tie their possession of a previously legally held firearm to the person they stole it from and / or murdered?

Not to mention the countless R1s, R4s, R5s, G3s, Z88s etc that have been stolen from state officials over the years, nor the reduced number of AKMs that are coming across the border from Mozambique (easier to just buy / steal weapons from the cops or army).

Long story short, in South Africa the police are regularly guilty of malfeance - only there it's a national sport and there are few "internal enquiries" to cover up their activities. There is a continued effort through parliament to advance even further restrictions on legal firearm ownership - in a country where it's literally, every man / woman for themselves.

In summary, licensed firearm owners are not the problem. One should ask why licensed firearm owners internationally are continually viewed in a suspicious light by the authorities?

Originally Posted by Savage1

I've actually found it quite useful on a number of occasions prosecuting offenders and returning stolen weapons, but hey, what would I know.

Returning stolen firearms? As if someone cannot and would not give the serial numbers of their stolen firearms when stolen, not beforehand for no good reason.

As for prosecuting offenders, what are you prosecuting them with exactly that wouldn't be possible without the serial number being on record BEFORE the robbery?

Originally Posted by Jexla

Returning stolen firearms? As if someone cannot and would not give the serial numbers of their stolen firearms when stolen, not beforehand for no good reason.

As for prosecuting offenders, what are you prosecuting them with exactly that wouldn't be possible without the serial number being on record BEFORE the robbery?

It's actually rare for people to have their serial numbers recorded, so it's virtually impossible to identify if a firearm is stolen and where it came from. If you can identify it you can link it back to a specific burglary.

In my experience most people don't record serial numbers and it's actually reasonably rare to see serial numbers removed.

Registration does have it's uses, regardless of your opinion.

Originally Posted by Savage1

It's actually rare for people to have their serial numbers recorded, so it's virtually impossible to identify if a firearm is stolen and where it came from. If you can identify it you can link it back to a specific burglary.

In my experience most people don't record serial numbers and it's actually reasonably rare to see serial numbers removed.

Registration does have it's uses, regardless of your opinion.

So the answer to my questions is that there's nothing that is made possible from registration that can't be done with personal recording, just that there is a lack of personal recording from your experience. (No doubt there)

Maybe instead of a registration, we encourage self recording of serial numbers like we do with many other firearm related things, and household items.

Originally Posted by Jexla

So the answer to my questions is that there's nothing that is made possible from registration that can't be done with personal recording, just that there is a lack of personal recording from your experience. (No doubt there)

Maybe instead of a registration, we encourage self recording of serial numbers like we do with many other firearm related things, and household items.

How about supplying firearms to unlicenced or unendorsed people? Registration has been used to catch/prosecute people who've done that. I also know of a person who did it with A-Cat but since there was no registration nothing could be done about the 10+ AR15s that he'd bought in the last year and sold to his head hunter associates.

Encouraging people to not speed doesn't work on everyone, why would this be any different?

Originally Posted by Savage1

How about supplying firearms to unlicenced or unendorsed people? Registration has been used to catch/prosecute people who've done that. I also know of a person who did it with A-Cat but since there was no registration nothing could be done about the 10+ AR15s that he'd bought in the last year and sold to his head hunter associates.

Encouraging people to not speed doesn't work on everyone, why would this be any different?

encouraging people not to speed isnt effective because the public are wising up to the tax rort that it is. The arguments for the zealous enforcement are bullshit.

Regisration of firearms is a joke, the sole purpose is to find out where they are prior to confiscation, as we have seen before.

i have photos of all my firearms complete with serial numbers and distinguishing features (eg scratch on stock).
sorry @SAVAGE i trust no department or agency with that info unless they were stolen

Originally Posted by Savage1

It still amazes me how much people jump up and down at the slightest hint of registration, ignoring the fact that for years there has been a gun registry running in this country and the sky hasn't fallen and the government hasn't arrived in force to take them.

Except when they did in 1972 with pistols or in WW2 for .303s....

Originally Posted by Savage1

How about supplying firearms to unlicenced or unendorsed people? Registration has been used to catch/prosecute people who've done that. I also know of a person who did it with A-Cat but since there was no registration nothing could be done about the 10+ AR15s that he'd bought in the last year and sold to his head hunter associates.

Encouraging people to not speed doesn't work on everyone, why would this be any different?

This comes back to the risk/reward thing again. If there was actually a decent deterrent to these shitheads getting guns illegally, it would be much much less of a problem. But bullshit castle sees fit to tutu with what I do instead of pushing for sentencing to suit the crimes that are actually being committed. Geoffrey Palmer take a bow. 3 months home D here, a fine someone won't pay there. The hole in the system is at the courts end. Making up new regs isn't going to mean shit for the people who break the law. People don't file serials off at the moment because there's no registration scheme - it's because they plain don't give a fuck, they get caught, sweet fuck all happens to them.

It's not like the States where it all gets rather serious being a felon in possession. The serials get rubbed to stop them getting linked to other crimes, yes, but only because consecutive sentencing makes it worthwhile for them to do so. Here, it doesn't matter, so why bother?