Thread: Feeling sick after reading this !

Originally Posted by Coop

That's pretty insulting implying our staff, who most hold their own FAL, would do that.

Where ever you have people involved there is always greed & temptation.

Also remember it wasn’t that long ago you had the owner of a H&F store involved in drug dealing!

There’s an article on the Herald website this morning about a straw buyer subtitled “How gangs get their guns”, but it’s a paywall one so can’t read much

Originally Posted by Cigar

There’s an article on the Herald website this morning about a straw buyer subtitled “How gangs get their guns”, but it’s a paywall one so can’t read much

Hit job which tells me the Regulator (NZ Police) are up to no good, no doubt justifying the 500% increase in Fees etc. Look for our friend Cahill to be behind the author.

Originally Posted by BSA

Hit job which tells me the Regulator (NZ Police) are up to no good, no doubt justifying the 500% increase in Fees etc. Look for our friend Cahill to be behind the author.

I disagree. I just finished reading the article. There was one point that annoyed me, the bit where they talked about an AK-47, which would be illegal in NZ as they are fully automatic (even before the 2019 laws).

The new police guy in charge of the register actually sounds reasonable:

The project is being led by Superintendent Richard Wilson, who concedes that in the past the police have not fulfilled their obligations under the Arms Act as effectively as they should.

...

“The key for police is to make sure that we keep everyone’s details really secure, so the firearms community isn’t targeted,” says Wilson, referring to concerns the national register could fall into the wrong hands. “Because the pressure will come on.”

The article is mostly about straw buyers, license holders who buy firearms then flick them onto gangs. And mostly about this guy Grond.

And interestingly, for a different point of view, the police are expecting once they close the straw buyer loophole they expect the gangs to switch to things like burglaries, ram raiding dealers etc. Not a single mention of fees.

It's a reasonable well written article, not the crap you usually see in stuff - plus it has some interesting and valid points from the police.

Originally Posted by vulcannz

I disagree. I just finished reading the article. There was one point that annoyed me, the bit where they talked about an AK-47, which would be illegal in NZ as they are fully automatic (even before the 2019 laws).

The new police guy in charge of the register actually sounds reasonable:



The article is mostly about straw buyers, license holders who buy firearms then flick them onto gangs. And mostly about this guy Grond.

And interestingly, for a different point of view, the police are expecting once they close the straw buyer loophole they expect the gangs to switch to things like burglaries, ram raiding dealers etc. Not a single mention of fees.

It's a reasonable well written article, not the crap you usually see in stuff - plus it has some interesting and valid points from the police.

Now there is a big surprise.....

My thoughts also.

It's a reasonable well written article, not the crap you usually see in stuff - plus it has some interesting and valid points from the police

In The Herald actually but I digress, this article from the BFD blog site covers that article far better than I can explain without writing a novel myself. As I said it is a Hit Piece.

https://thebfd.co.nz/2023/01/16/poli...ed-up-as-news/

I would also recommend Firearms Owners apply some critical thinking, it is an Election year and we are going to be vilified yet again to cover for vast inadequacies by Govt/Police in the criminal sector. This comment from a Firearms Owner I thought very well put.

Joe Grond, quite a distinctive name, 22, labourer, able to afford expensive guns.
Despite my enquires to the Auckland collector fraternity, including dealers this guy is not known.
I find this hard to believe given the "facts" presented in the article.
My opinion is this chicken manure story is a plant from police with no charges being mentioned and it seems there are no back articles mentioning the arrest of Grong from 2019 or 2020.
This story smells as bad as the chicken manure writing.

Note to Angela Brazier, it is high time you stopped this sort of nonsense.
You are the boss you must realise that targeting firearms owners as "criminals in waiting" is and will severely damage any sort of relationship you want with firearms owners

I was going to refrain from commenting, but BSA has opened the gate.

The police have been trying to build the case that all guns in criminal hands come from licensed firearm owners, not from any other source.

I think Nicole Mckee got from Coster an admission that they actually only know where a small proportoo of guns have come from, and they are now trying to say "well - that is where all the guns come from" - and now this article very conveniently is produced.

I read the news very well, and had clearly missed any prior reporting of that case, and it just seemed to convenient in light of recent comments from the police and politicians.

A quick google search will provide some background.

Now - a Joseph Grond did sign a petition for COLFO - so this article could all be true, but WHY was the case previously unreported. The media, for this sort of public interest case would have been all over it. The police would have ensured there was coverage of it.

I read the article, and it didnt read right, in fact it stinks, there is a distinct lack of realism to it, ie lack of dates.

I would hope for the medias credibilty that this article was fact checked first, for me the jory is out - however it is a good plausible "story"

Yeah nah, I still disagree. If you read the article as a whole, it's not that way. If you take a few clips out without context of the rest of the article you can make it look that way, which the bfd have done.

There was also this guy: https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/...g-guns-to-gang so Police aren't imagining things.

Originally Posted by vulcannz

Yeah nah, I still disagree. If you read the article as a whole, it's not that way. If you take a few clips out without context of the rest of the article you can make it look that way, which the bfd have done.

There was also this guy: https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/...g-guns-to-gang so Police aren't imagining things.

Yet another guy that would not have had a FAL if a diligent background check had been conducted.

Originally Posted by Finnwolf

Yet another guy that would not have had a FAL if a diligent background check had been conducted.

Absolutely agree, and as per my post above so does the cop in article...

The project is being led by Superintendent Richard Wilson, who concedes that in the past the police have not fulfilled their obligations under the Arms Act as effectively as they should.

Originally Posted by vulcannz

Quote Originally Posted by Finnwolf View Post
Yet another guy that would not have had a FAL if a diligent background check had been conducted.
Absolutely agree, and as per my post above so does the cop in article...

The project is being led by Superintendent Richard Wilson, who concedes that in the past the police have not fulfilled their obligations under the Arms Act as effectively as they should.Absolutely agree, and as per my post above so does the cop in article...

I think that comment from Mr Wilson is overly generous as well, if the reports I saw were correct not only were the Police not fulfilling their obligations - they were actively siphoning the funds off for their pet projects that each Policing district was trying to promote. It was seen as a easy low risk source of extra funding, and it bit. Now they are trying to make out it's everyone else's problem but theirs and trying to recover extra funding for it.

Originally Posted by vulcannz

Yeah nah, I still disagree. If you read the article as a whole, it's not that way. If you take a few clips out without context of the rest of the article you can make it look that way, which the bfd have done.

There was also this guy: https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/...g-guns-to-gang so Police aren't imagining things.

And he's you answer "Edwards had a firearms licence, despite having 53 convictions in Australia." Police failure to do their job.

Bet the other (if they exist) is similar.

Vulcannz do YOU work for the Police in any way shape or form?

Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

Vulcannz do YOU work for the Police in any way shape or form?[/FONT][/COLOR]

nope and you will find I am happy to criticize them when they deserve it. For example their mail servers still use self signed certificates, like someone is running their IT from their garage.

Haven't read the article, paywall etc etc.

But the comment about a registry stopping straw buying is pure wishful thinking, there is zero mechanism or even enough manpower to review the firearms licence holders to actually ensure what is registered is actually there. And at the 5yr mark for first renewal or the 10yr mark for subsequent renewals it's just too damn late and few and far between the 240,000 reviews to mean a damn. What it will mean is that the straw buyer thing becomes a case of either the person the gangs are making get the licence knows that they are up for a headbutt and the cost of that is priced into the gang's reimbursement for services rendered or there will be a trend of robberies at the 4.5 year or the 9.5 year mark. That and a quick whip over with a stolen angle grinder removing the numbers and bob's your gender-not-specified relative of questionable origins. Still of the opinion that if the point of the exercise was better regime control that opportunity has already been lost by not putting all semi's onto E-cat instead of doing a confiscation which arguably only recovered a percentage of the fleet. The remainder will not come back out of the ether with these sorts of mad schemes at foot.