Thread: Firearms ban in Western aussie

Originally Posted by mikee

Hey I said I would support them ........................I never said I would demonstrate @sneeze

Ah go on, March 12 at the shoot? Half time entertainment..

Originally Posted by sneeze

Ah go on, March 12 at the shoot? Half time entertainment..

I may yet be working that day

Originally Posted by mikee

I may yet be working that day

Id even pay your entry fee

Originally Posted by timattalon

Sorry but according to todays information....The gangs are 'community leaders' and have been asked by Nashie to to show leadership and discourage looting in the flooded areas up north...They mobilised 600 police for the protests at parliament, and they mobilised the armed forces for the Chch earthquakes (though unarmed in that role...) And Nash is from up that way somewhere, isnt he?

Sorry Ross. Tim is right. watch this:
https://youtu.be/yX2TUQWiEC8
that guy is now providing "drug rehab" services for the government
then there was giving the prisoners the vote.

I'm not on the side of the gangs. Not one bit.

What I'm saying is that the current system isn't making things better, and keeping on doing something that you know doesn't work is just stupid.

Originally Posted by Ross Nolan

I'm not on the side of the gangs. Not one bit.

What I'm saying is that the current system isn't making things better, and keeping on doing something that you know doesn't work is just stupid.

Well from where I see it, the current policy that is not working goes something along the lines of ...

Punish those who obey the law, and ask kindly for those that flout or ignore the law to please try to do better.....

And I agree wholeheartedly that this policy is not working. Maybe it is time to try going hard on crime and allow those who have proven that they obey the law to continue to do so...

I grew up in an area with significant welfare dependence. I don't see it so much as "deprevation due to circumstances" it's more like due to a bad culture of reliance on the Government.

Some thing that has always stuck with me was a job I was involved with at Sanitarium years and years ago. It was building a machine to put cards into cereal boxes. The machine replaced a lady who used to sit on the line with a bunch of boxes holding different cards in front of her, and she would put one in each box of cereal as it went past.

She was a lovely person, but I very much doubt that she learned to write computer code when her job disappeared. We have lost thousands of those jobs. We used to build TV's here - now we buy them from China or Vietnam using money borrowed from overseas, and those jobs have gone also.

Anyone bought a NZ made or assembled car lately?

I know that there were inefficiencies in local protected manufacture - I was there. I also know that the thousands and thousands of people in those industries were getting more than a pay check out of them. Intangibles like pride, stability, self reliance, trade skills. Old fashioned stuff.

We didn't just throw the baby out with the bathwater, we hired a foreign contractor to do it and wondered where our middle class went afterwards.

On the other hand, Sir Steven and the Warehouse thank you for your contribution - maybe he could sponsor @mikee to take a day for Morris dancing.

Originally Posted by Ross Nolan

I'm not on the side of the gangs. Not one bit.

What I'm saying is that the current system isn't making things better, and keeping on doing something that you know doesn't work is just stupid.

You're right - that's the issue in a nutshell with the current firearms proposals. The consequences of the changes and the damage they cause will in no way be anchored to the individuals that did the damage. No individual responsibility, and in a sea of public sector workers the only way you get yourself noticed for career advancement purposes is by being more extreme than the next guy or girl even if what you propose gets watered down before it's implemented. Once implemented fire-forget-move on to the next career advancement project.

In no part of that 'being more extreme' does the reality that what you are proposing needs to actually be effective, economical and maintainable come into it - same issue as roading the guy that builds it does it as cheap as possible then goes back for the maintenance contract. What should happen is the outfit should design, build maintain for 20 years upfront agreement front loaded with the profit component paid out after contract completion. Then we will see roads built correctly, maintenance on a crap build is expensive...

Originally Posted by Ross Nolan

I think the answer is a whole lot more complex and nuanced than just go hard and lock the sons of bitches up.

There is an employment component, an associates and community component, a pride component, a family component, a money component, a solo parent component, an education component, a lack of belonging, of excitement....and it isn't accidental that gaining a patch involves doing something that makes it impossible to be accepted back into "polite" society.

I don't think that any party is courting the gang vote, but I do think that doing the things that will fix it are going to be hard, and could risk the voter base of some of the parties.

If it was simple the fix would have been done already.

Well, I'm old fashioned. The primary function of Law and Order is to make sure the honest folk can go about their lawful business in safety. I'm a fan of the outlaw concept. If you are breaking the law, you are outside of it's protection.

Originally Posted by Ross Nolan

Some thing that has always stuck with me was a job I was involved with at Sanitarium years and years ago. It was building a machine to put cards into cereal boxes. The machine replaced a lady who used to sit on the line with a bunch of boxes holding different cards in front of her, and she would put one in each box of cereal as it went past.

She was a lovely person, but I very much doubt that she learned to write computer code when her job disappeared. We have lost thousands of those jobs. We used to build TV's here - now we buy them from China or Vietnam using money borrowed from overseas, and those jobs have gone also.

Anyone bought a NZ made or assembled car lately?

I know that there were inefficiencies in local protected manufacture - I was there. I also know that the thousands and thousands of people in those industries were getting more than a pay check out of them. Intangibles like pride, stability, self reliance, trade skills. Old fashioned stuff.

We didn't just throw the baby out with the bathwater, we hired a foreign contractor to do it and wondered where our middle class went afterwards.

On the other hand, Sir Steven and the Warehouse thank you for your contribution - maybe he could sponsor @mikee to take a day for Morris dancing.

I was listening to discussion on radio about our education system...the ywent on about the bell curve etc and how grades were decided.... PART of the idea behind having a standard to pass,it the bottom 10-15-20% WONT PASS ,therefore they are available to do the mundaine lower skilled/lower mindpower needed jobs (and that isnt meant to sound as patronising as it reads) if everyone was educated up to the highest degree,it would be hard to find someone to ride the rubbish truck and collect the waste,who wants to get up at 3AM to pull tits when could sleep in till nine the nwork behind computer at home....sort of thinking.
we have pretty much always had enough employment oppertunities IF you willing to do hard graft,get your hands dirty
as for institutional unemployment for want of better term, for last 20 years or more,becoming a solo mum has been seen in some places as a carreer option with salery attractive enough if you play the system right...it has some shit longterm/moral/social concequences but it has been an option
growing hooch..ccoking meth..selling same...being mule and carting same have also been regularly discussed as viable option to keep roof over head and food on table. Ive overheard many of those discussions over the years...in fact heard meth cooking discussed in smokoroom just the other night from two fellas on $1300 a week in hand salery!!!!!!
for as long as these other options are seen as an easy way,with little or low chance of serious /dire repercussions if it goes wrong,the young folks will continue to explore them as life pathway
if the alternative is shone in better light (now I cant but help draw similarity to another very old book that mentions the narrow path here) MAYBE just MAYBE we can get ahead of the issues..but boy have we taken this thread a LOOONG way from origonal post.

Originally Posted by Ross Nolan

Some thing that has always stuck with me was a job I was involved with at Sanitarium years and years ago. It was building a machine to put cards into cereal boxes. The machine replaced a lady who used to sit on the line with a bunch of boxes holding different cards in front of her, and she would put one in each box of cereal as it went past.

She was a lovely person, but I very much doubt that she learned to write computer code when her job disappeared. We have lost thousands of those jobs. We used to build TV's here - now we buy them from China or Vietnam using money borrowed from overseas, and those jobs have gone also.

Anyone bought a NZ made or assembled car lately?

I know that there were inefficiencies in local protected manufacture - I was there. I also know that the thousands and thousands of people in those industries were getting more than a pay check out of them. Intangibles like pride, stability, self reliance, trade skills. Old fashioned stuff.

We didn't just throw the baby out with the bathwater, we hired a foreign contractor to do it and wondered where our middle class went afterwards.

On the other hand, Sir Steven and the Warehouse thank you for your contribution - maybe he could sponsor @mikee to take a day for Morris dancing.

yep we made tv's here in nz and they were crap!
spent my entire apprenticeship working on badly made junk

Originally Posted by gonetropo

yep we made tv's here in nz and they were crap!
spent my entire apprenticeship working on badly made junk

Me too. Philips K9, Pye 102,103 and 104s and worst of the lot Bell tvc-1 & 2.
Not to mention the locally made audio products....ooooooooo

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

I was listening to discussion on radio about our education system...

I was listening to that too. That teacher they had on was quite good. I've had issues with one of my boys post-covid. In the end he dropped out of school. I tried so hard, the school were totally disinterested in helping - they honestly couldn't give a flying f. The teachers are a real mixed bag, there are a couple of good ones but the rest are very average or less. I've done work in a lot of public schools and it's the same across all of them.

Long weekend coming up? You'll find a 'teachers only' day tacked onto it. When I was working with schools (IT work) we'd often do major changes on these days because NO ONE was there. They also have loads of union days, training days and other weird shit.

I think my son struggled because of all the ideological shit being pushed by some teachers like the rainbow community stuff, focus on climate change, sitting in circles singing kumbaya or something (don't laugh... my 2nd son has described this happening).

Simply put our public schools are no longer academic institutions. They see their job now is to indoctrinate kids, and a lot of kids don't like it.

Originally Posted by gonetropo

yep we made tv's here in nz and they were crap!
spent my entire apprenticeship working on badly made junk

And there is part of the answer.

I build a world class product in Taupo.

I see Larry Ellison's guys making a world class product in Wellsford.

Rocket Lab aren't too bad.

The local made stuff that was rubbish shouldn't have been tolerated - but in someone else's words, we suffered from the tyranny of low expectations.

I think we need to believe that NZ can be more than a country of baristas and bus drivers.

P.s. I'm not equating myself with Larry Ellison. What I'm saying is that we can do as well in the industries that scale to NZ as anyone else, anywhere else.