Thread: Firearms ban in Western aussie

Originally Posted by Flyblown

@Tahr, I’m happy to be a forum “fudd”. Just looked it up. Learn something new every day.

It’s really interesting to me how this thread has gone. It’s no surprise though. Question the thinking behind of some of the posters’ comments - e.g. the making stuff up, the “PNHQ want all guns gone” comments, etc - and it doesn’t take long for the snide remarks and general bitter & twisted comments to start rolling in.

This, sadly, is normal.

The snidey remarks are water off a ducks back to me. If that’s all you’ve got to offer, then you’re on a one way ticket to nowhere. What I would prefer to see though is ideas, organisation, planning, actions. What are you actually going to do about it?

A real simple thing to remember is the bigger picture.


Do not for one second think you're( insert this ban shit won't affect me) firearm of choice won't be affected one day.

Death by 1000 cuts. Pure and simple.

Get voicing concerns with groups that can affect the outcome positively. ACT, COLFO, Democracy nz etc etc...

This sort of infighting and simple mindedness that's been displayed is only ammo for those who want to further reduce our sport bit by bit. Mark my words

Originally Posted by Rock river arms hunter

A real simple thing to remember is the bigger picture.


Do not for one second think you're( insert this ban shit won't affect me) firearm of choice won't be affected one day.

Death by 1000 cuts. Pure and simple.

Get voicing concerns with groups that can affect the outcome positively. ACT, COLFO, Democracy nz etc etc...

This sort of infighting and simple mindedness that's been displayed is only ammo for those who want to further reduce our sport bit by bit. Mark my words

No shit.

If you want to be successful in this quest, then you need to tell the dispossessed to stop the anti-police ranting.

There’s all sorts of ways that I can say that last sentence. It makes me really angry, the way the dispossessed shit in their own nest and make all of us look terrible. We all carry the can for a small minority’s inability to accept reality.

The dispossessed have lost the room. Many, a great many, ordinary hunters no longer give a fuck about the losses of whatever minority category of sports shooter under the buy-back. This is evidenced in NZDA meetings and elsewhere. They see the anti-police rhetoric online - a constant and worsening threat - and hate it with a passion because of what it enables. Police read everything.

Stop the anti-police rhetoric.

Originally Posted by Flyblown

No shit.

If you want to be successful in this quest, then you need to tell the dispossessed to stop the anti-police ranting.

There’s all sorts of ways that I can say that last sentence. It makes me really angry, the way the dispossessed shit in their own nest and make all of us look terrible. We all carry the can for a small minority’s inability to accept reality.

The dispossessed have lost the room. Many, a great many, ordinary hunters no longer give a fuck about the losses of whatever minority category of sports shooter under the buy-back. This is evidenced in NZDA meetings and elsewhere. They see the anti-police rhetoric online - a constant and worsening threat - and hate it with a passion because of what it enables. Police read everything.

Stop the anti-police rhetoric.

AMEN to that.....agree 100%

Originally Posted by Flyblown

No shit.

If you want to be successful in this quest, then you need to tell the dispossessed to stop the anti-police ranting.

There’s all sorts of ways that I can say that last sentence. It makes me really angry, the way the dispossessed shit in their own nest and make all of us look terrible. We all carry the can for a small minority’s inability to accept reality.

The dispossessed have lost the room. Many, a great many, ordinary hunters no longer give a fuck about the losses of whatever minority category of sports shooter under the buy-back. This is evidenced in NZDA meetings and elsewhere. They see the anti-police rhetoric online - a constant and worsening threat - and hate it with a passion because of what it enables. Police read everything.

Stop the anti-police rhetoric.

Lol. Putting your fingers in your ears saying I can't hear you (because lots of people are still angry at police), while not supporting other shooting disciplines bec6"it doesn't affect me" Is the height of stupidity.

I laughed my ass off at nzda when they finally realized the legislation changes were going to impact them.

The previous minister of defence called the police incompetent in administration of the arms act. They are.

Originally Posted by Flyblown

No shit.

If you want to be successful in this quest, then you need to tell the dispossessed to stop the anti-police ranting.

There’s all sorts of ways that I can say that last sentence. It makes me really angry, the way the dispossessed shit in their own nest and make all of us look terrible. We all carry the can for a small minority’s inability to accept reality.

The dispossessed have lost the room. Many, a great many, ordinary hunters no longer give a fuck about the losses of whatever minority category of sports shooter under the buy-back. This is evidenced in NZDA meetings and elsewhere. They see the anti-police rhetoric online - a constant and worsening threat - and hate it with a passion because of what it enables. Police read everything.

Stop the anti-police rhetoric.

What is anti police ranting? Blaming the police hierarchy that is targeting us? I suspect you come from a police state which lacks freedom of speech. Let me explain something New Zealand is (or maybe was) a country with free speech. I hope you casn understand that.

By the way being nice to them (the police and politicians) will achieve nothing, please show me where it worked? In fact the only place that seem to have manged to keep their right to own guns so far is (most) of the US and they didn't achieve that by being nice.

Originally Posted by Rock river arms hunter

A real simple thing to remember is

This sort of infighting and simple mindedness that's been displayed is only ammo for those who want to further reduce our sport bit by bit. Mark my words

there you go...now read it again.
some people do routinely cleanly kill animals with only one shot
doesnt mean they are against magazine fed rifles or shotguns
I gave you clear connections between some rather common firearms and showed you connections between others and how the yare connected and also agreed most are in some way derived from origonal military weapons..heck alot of confederate soldiers used thier own $$$ to purchase henry lever action repeaters..so you could well say a lever action 30/30 .45/70 .45lc 44/40 are or have been weapons of war....nobody is denying that they have been used in war.

Ive shot animals with SLR sks mini14 so yes I DO understand just how good they were.... but they are gone now..and Im enough of a realist to know they arent coming back.... Ive put it in past and like to leave it there,Ive thrown no one under bus.

All the Firearms just banned in Western Australia were Registered. Anyone who thinks that same sort of behaviour will not happen in New Zealand is delusional. NZ Police have gone from Administrators to Regulators. Just saying.

Originally Posted by BSA

All the Firearms just banned in Western Australia were Registered. Anyone who thinks that same sort of behaviour will not happen in New Zealand is delusional. NZ Police have gone from Administrators to Regulators. Just saying.

Yup, less than 5 years is my estimate at this point...

Will be interesting to see if WA cops pay compensation for associated gear such as dies, cases, projectiles etc.

Yeah. Im going to throw and idea out there that might not be popular, but I think there is an element of common sense to it.

Ok

So we as a community knew there were problems with the old system pre Christchurch. basically it boils down too, it was too easy to get a licence, and magazines over a certain capacity should have been restricted too a certain class of licence. Such as is seen with pistol licences.
It would have done us a world of good as a community if we had of pushed for some such to happen- even if it was declined, we then could have justifiably said I told you so.

Now I dont think the same danger is there re these large calibre weapons. But they are a special class and thier ability is overwhelming in magnitude. I dont want to see them banned as the people who use them have a special sport and dont harm anyone. But recognising they are especially powerful, and that if one is used incorrectly in a high profile manor, that we will lose them. Does it not make sense for our community to suggest some sensible regulations aimed at stopping thier miss use before something happens? Or someone decides they just dont like them.

‘Thoughtcrime and other dystopian terms come to mind when reading about the Aus cops logic with this crappy legislation - banning even though those calibres have never been used in a massacre or to shoot cops but “we’ll ban them just in case they MIGHT get used in a shooting”
Spare me days! (as Mr Crump would say!)

@whanahuia, what you typed in above sounds fairly reasonable...

when you dig into it a little deeper, the reality is unfortunately a bit more complex.

most guys involved in service rifle will be able to tell you long stories how for years and years before CHC, we tried to point out to police how crazy their ever changing rules around MSSA's were. the number of iterations these rules went through, and the amount of loops genuine sport shooters had to go through would surprise you. magazines over a certain capacity WERE restricted to certain endorsement holders. the big failure by police was to allow non-endorsed shooters to buy AR style rifles (this and the ease of purchasing 30 round mags was pointed out to them time and time again).

restrictions on functional characteristics would have made some sense, but what we ended up with was a poorly administered system of rules that really revolved around appearance rather than function.

the reality is that in terms of some lunatic deciding to commit an atrocity with a centerfire rifle, there is very little difference between a 7mm-08, a 7mm RM and a 338 Lapua. in fact, it takes significantly more skill and expense to become proficient with the types of calibers the WA police are now banning...

Originally Posted by ebf

@whanahuia, what you typed in above sounds fairly reasonable...

when you dig into it a little deeper, the reality is unfortunately a bit more complex.

most guys involved in service rifle will be able to tell you long stories how for years and years before CHC, we tried to point out to police how crazy their ever changing rules around MSSA's were. the number of iterations these rules went through, and the amount of loops genuine sport shooters had to go through would surprise you. magazines over a certain capacity WERE restricted to certain endorsement holders. the big failure by police was to allow non-endorsed shooters to buy AR style rifles (this and the ease of purchasing 30 round mags was pointed out to them time and time again).

restrictions on functional characteristics would have made some sense, but what we ended up with was a poorly administered system of rules that really revolved around appearance rather than function.

the reality is that in terms of some lunatic deciding to commit an atrocity with a centerfire rifle, there is very little difference between a 7mm-08, a 7mm RM and a 338 Lapua. in fact, it takes significantly more skill and expense to become proficient with the types of calibers the WA police are now banning...

Yep, I understand that. And realise the issue was pointed out while police were busy with thier eye on pistol grips etc. But as group we did not do so in a manor that had to be listened too. And while I do recall the issue being brought up, I dont remember any really coherent attempt at changing the situation from us. Dont get me wrong we should not have had to push it. But it was quite obvious for some time that the places attitude to firearms licence holders and groups was dismissive and negative.

And yes those weapons are a hell of expensive, not always practical and probably less lethal to a group than a hunting rifle. However do you think those in a position to ban them will understand that? Do you think they would care?

I would also suggest that getting a license wasn't easy. It was the fact the procedure wasn't followed. Because bureaucracy failed they have now put in so much that it shouldn't. But there is still the human factor and as such it can always fail

I'm guessing this is about the government being terrified of Mark and Sam after work...
https://youtube.com/@markandsamafterwork

100% a slippery scope here.
The difference between 300 Norma and 300 PRC/300 WM is only a few hundred FPS, in 95% of circumstances the three cartridges would be used interchangably.

If this is based on certain guns being to big (physically) and snipery it takes very little to expand a ban into cartridges that are ballistically similar to these larger cartridges.
If you look at the cartridges that are popular for short range ELR in the USA (1mile ish) we are talking: 300Norma, 300PRC, 7SAUM, 6.5PRC and other similar cartridges.

Saw this meme on a US forum the other day, obviously not the same circumstance as AU/NZ but seems very relatable.