Thread: Firearms Registry Consultation Open

Yeah nah.

Zero accountability.

ZERO trust.

The ammunition component of the register comes, I suspect, from Police Of Mother England Extraction...

If you want a look into a future for NZ, check the UK deer hunting website Stalking Directory, especially the legal section. The police can set a limit on how much ammo you can hold, and it is a revocation of license deal if you are over.

I'd REALLY like it if people stopped bringing the sort of attitudes and behaviours that made them want to leave their country with them to this one.

I doubt that any notice will be taken of any submission opposing the register. I doubt it because the Govt. here is following the UN template for small arms control: https://www.un.org/disarmament/wp-co...-2012EV1.0.pdf

"Stopping diversion from civilians. An estimated 75 per cent of small arms are in civilian hands. This encompasses all kinds and categories of arms and owners: security guards' pistols, farmers' shotguns, hunting rifles, collectors' displays, retailers' stocks, gangsters' crime weapons, as well as the many millions of guns sitting in homes and cars around the world for no particular reason or in the general name of security.

Part of this huge private arsenal consists of illegal guns (ie in the hands of people not entitled to possess them) and part consists of legal or semi-legal (grey) guns. Due to lack of data we can only guess at the relative distribution between legal and illegal. We know that many illegal guns came originally from Government stockpiles. Others have come from private owners, either deliberately through trafficking or unintentionally through loss, theft or private transfers. Globally, the private civilian stockpile is less accountable, far less strictly guarded and three times as plentiful as its state counterpart -- all qualities that support easy diversion of weapons to the illegal sector.

The best way to reduce diversion from the civilian stockpile to the illegal market is to reduce the size of the civilian stockpile, slow the arming of the population, and strengthen regulation of civilian ownership. Reducing the number of owners is reducing the number of potential points of diversion. Strengthening controls makes it much harder for guns to migrate into the criminal market. For example, a regulatory framework without firearm registration enables an owner to sell the weapon to a private buyer easily, without having to consider whether the buyer is legally authorized to acquire it. On the other hand, a regime that includes firearms registration necessarily imposes a higher degree of responsibility. The gun is registered in the seller's name with the State; thus the seller cannot transfer the ownership unless the State confirms that the buyer is authorized to acquire the weapon. This measure, firearm registration, is perhaps the single most effective tool in stopping diversion of legal small arms from civilians.

The other provisions are also anti-diversion and anti-trafficking measures, by stopping people from acquiring large numbers of guns and ensuring that the purchase or disposal of a gun is not a decision to be taken lightly. National firearm laws should recognize small arms as a product manufactured for killing, and therefore a product requiring strict control."

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

I doubt that any notice will be taken of any submission opposing the register. I doubt it because the Govt. here is following the UN template for small arms control: https://www.un.org/disarmament/wp-co...-2012EV1.0.pdf

"Stopping diversion from civilians. An estimated 75 per cent of small arms are in civilian hands. This encompasses all kinds and categories of arms and owners: security guards' pistols, farmers' shotguns, hunting rifles, collectors' displays, retailers' stocks, gangsters' crime weapons, as well as the many millions of guns sitting in homes and cars around the world for no particular reason or in the general name of security.

Part of this huge private arsenal consists of illegal guns (ie in the hands of people not entitled to possess them) and part consists of legal or semi-legal (grey) guns. Due to lack of data we can only guess at the relative distribution between legal and illegal. We know that many illegal guns came originally from Government stockpiles. Others have come from private owners, either deliberately through trafficking or unintentionally through loss, theft or private transfers. Globally, the private civilian stockpile is less accountable, far less strictly guarded and three times as plentiful as its state counterpart -- all qualities that support easy diversion of weapons to the illegal sector.

The best way to reduce diversion from the civilian stockpile to the illegal market is to reduce the size of the civilian stockpile, slow the arming of the population, and strengthen regulation of civilian ownership. Reducing the number of owners is reducing the number of potential points of diversion. Strengthening controls makes it much harder for guns to migrate into the criminal market. For example, a regulatory framework without firearm registration enables an owner to sell the weapon to a private buyer easily, without having to consider whether the buyer is legally authorized to acquire it. On the other hand, a regime that includes firearms registration necessarily imposes a higher degree of responsibility. The gun is registered in the seller's name with the State; thus the seller cannot transfer the ownership unless the State confirms that the buyer is authorized to acquire the weapon. This measure, firearm registration, is perhaps the single most effective tool in stopping diversion of legal small arms from civilians.

The other provisions are also anti-diversion and anti-trafficking measures, by stopping people from acquiring large numbers of guns and ensuring that the purchase or disposal of a gun is not a decision to be taken lightly. National firearm laws should recognize small arms as a product manufactured for killing, and therefore a product requiring strict control."

If you look at what countries have 'signed' up to this ^^^ Under New Zealand, the two agencies are NZ POLICE & Ministry of Foreign Affairs!

And people still can't connect the dots...

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

I doubt that any notice will be taken of any submission opposing the register.

Absolutely correct, because this submission process has nothing to do with the register going ahead or not. The register is already set in law so the police have to go ahead with it no matter what.

From the police webpage...
Out of scope
The consultation does not cover establishment of the Registry, access to the Registry by other Agencies, or offences related to the Registry, all of which are already set out in the Act.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

I doubt that any notice will be taken of any submission opposing the register. I doubt it because the Govt. here is following the UN template for small arms control: https://www.un.org/disarmament/wp-co...-2012EV1.0.pdf

"Stopping diversion from civilians. An estimated 75 per cent of small arms are in civilian hands. This encompasses all kinds and categories of arms and owners: security guards' pistols, farmers' shotguns, hunting rifles, collectors' displays, retailers' stocks, gangsters' crime weapons, as well as the many millions of guns sitting in homes and cars around the world for no particular reason or in the general name of security.

Part of this huge private arsenal consists of illegal guns (ie in the hands of people not entitled to possess them) and part consists of legal or semi-legal (grey) guns. Due to lack of data we can only guess at the relative distribution between legal and illegal. We know that many illegal guns came originally from Government stockpiles. Others have come from private owners, either deliberately through trafficking or unintentionally through loss, theft or private transfers. Globally, the private civilian stockpile is less accountable, far less strictly guarded and three times as plentiful as its state counterpart -- all qualities that support easy diversion of weapons to the illegal sector.

The best way to reduce diversion from the civilian stockpile to the illegal market is to reduce the size of the civilian stockpile, slow the arming of the population, and strengthen regulation of civilian ownership. Reducing the number of owners is reducing the number of potential points of diversion. Strengthening controls makes it much harder for guns to migrate into the criminal market. For example, a regulatory framework without firearm registration enables an owner to sell the weapon to a private buyer easily, without having to consider whether the buyer is legally authorized to acquire it. On the other hand, a regime that includes firearms registration necessarily imposes a higher degree of responsibility. The gun is registered in the seller's name with the State; thus the seller cannot transfer the ownership unless the State confirms that the buyer is authorized to acquire the weapon. This measure, firearm registration, is perhaps the single most effective tool in stopping diversion of legal small arms from civilians.

The other provisions are also anti-diversion and anti-trafficking measures, by stopping people from acquiring large numbers of guns and ensuring that the purchase or disposal of a gun is not a decision to be taken lightly. National firearm laws should recognize small arms as a product manufactured for killing, and therefore a product requiring strict control."

The key sentence here is in paragraph 3: "Reducing the number of owners"....I recall being told by a Police Arms Officer in the late 1980s that there are "far too many firearms out there, and we will do whatever we can to reduce that number". Fair warning, I would have thought.

Originally Posted by Ranger 888

The key sentence here is in paragraph 3: "Reducing the number of owners"....I recall being told by a Police Arms Officer in the late 1980s that there are "far too many firearms out there, and we will do whatever we can to reduce that number". Fair warning, I would have thought.

Agreed, perhaps the best counter measure is to promote hunting as an ideal activity for young men with the mental health / youth suicide prevention groups. Getting out in the bush, cooking around a campfire, bringing wild food home and the sense of purpose and success this brings. We need to recruit more hunters and not fight the register - leave that to the ballot box

Originally Posted by Ranger 888

The key sentence here is in paragraph 3: "Reducing the number of owners"....I recall being told by a Police Arms Officer in the late 1980s that there are "far too many firearms out there, and we will do whatever we can to reduce that number". Fair warning, I would have thought.

Oh yeah and look who's gonna be leading the charge.

“It’s an important opportunity to set out New Zealand’s continued commitment to the multilateral system and international rules based order (AKA The UN & WEF...) ... international cooperation is more important than ever.”

talking about security , I see that the theft of the records from the old police station in Akl , the one with all the firearms owners details etc , is not being investigated by the police or ipcc(?) as to how it happened the docs were left in the station etc ....

Obviously extremely concerned with security ....

The register IS going to be a shopping list , no doubt , and going by the above do you really think the cops give a rats backside ??

The only "pros" is that if someone stole your firearms and are registered then your insurance company has the evidence and details required for your insurance claim.

I know of one incident where registered firearms were stolen in Northland. A suspicious vehicle was stopped on the same day in North Shore, and firearms discovered. The firearm owner was contacted to say they were been held by the police and later returned.

Originally Posted by small_caliber

Perhaps everyone should get organised and log in to update their ammunition at a certain time every day to see if the system can cope.
It just records ammunition bought, not used so at the end of 3 years I could have 10,000 rounds against my name but not actually have any of it.




What about when you move and no Dr's are taking on new patients?
My wife recently wanted to change her Dr as her previous Dr retired and she doesn't like the new Dr, so she thought she would transfer to a clinic that was closer to home, problem is no clinics are taking on new patients.

Exactly my point. They need to see the fishhooks so they can a. fix them or b. scrap them so the register is actually manageable
My advice is submit with practical suggestions or real flaws. From experience, out of scope polemics and nit picking are not taken up. Practical suggestions or thoughtful critiques get a second look. Be the second

Sent from my SM-J250G using Tapatalk

Regarding the GP aspect, if I were a doctor I would be extremely concerned. Basically in the license application and subsequently police are requiring you to conduct a psychology assessment (something you are not trained in) of an individual you may only see once a year and then for only 10 minutes.
They then rely on this assessment as a major part of their grant or deny screening.
If someone subsequently goes off the rails will you be liable.
The issue with rural. GPs us extremely valid. I haven't seen the same Dr in 4 years they're all locums before covid 2 of them were tourists paying for their holiday this way.
You may as well ask the postie for all the value it has.

Originally Posted by Rusky

The only "pros" is that if someone stole your firearms and are registered then your insurance company has the evidence and details required for your insurance claim.

I know of one incident where registered firearms were stolen in Northland. A suspicious vehicle was stopped on the same day in North Shore, and firearms discovered. The firearm owner was contacted to say they were been held by the police and later returned.

Agree, but if my firearms are stolen, police will have make, model, serial number and photos the same day. I'm. Happy to provide the info - when they need it.

Originally Posted by GDMP

Odd comment.....it was never their job to try and reduce numbers of legally held firearms or legal owners,rather to administer the act impartially.Over the years I have come across Police who were both anti firearms (well,our firearms anyway,not their's) and those who were quite the opposite and were somewhat helpful towards legal owners.

GDMP..I think he was implying that if owners of legally held firearms act NAUGHTILY, they would lose their firearms.

Originally Posted by Bol Tackshin

Agree, but if my firearms are stolen, police will have make, model, serial number and photos the same day. I'm. Happy to provide the info - when they need it.

Some people aren't as organized as you. In fact, the above stolen firearms that were mentioned were reported to police in Whangarei straight away. The paperwork hadn't even been completed before the call from North Shore Police had located them due to the fact they were registered.