Thread: Gunsmith - triggering event or not?

Originally Posted by John Duxbury

I would have disputed that a mail order form for a suppressor is an activating event!

With the FSA it seems the people who work there have on one hand very loose interpretations right up to wrong ones, and then quite strict, depending on who you get on the phone. It is more than what a lay person in the community could understand from their own publications, which is what they all are....they all seem to be call centre people who were given a powerpoint presentation on their first day and then told to answer the phones.

(Look even the police whose job it is to enforce and disseminate the new order dont understand the basics. My security inspector insisted that you need to have your ammo in a locked box when traveling in your car. I pointed out that Arms Act literally says, a locked compartment of the vehicle - if practicable. She was unable to understand this.)

That's exactly what I found myself in with what I was doing - carting the ammo in a ute with a lockable canopy/tray. Firearms in the cab, so I thought I was complying with everything in separately locked compartments of the vehicle. Turned up where I was going and everyone commented that I didn't have the ammo in a locked box. I was like huh? Where does it say I need a locked box?

Quick googling, followed by more discussion and then an argument or three and we all agreed to expand our horizons on what size 'locked box' the ammo was in. Buggered if I know - it's almost like you need a copy of the Arms Act in your back pocket now, quite shit really.

apparently a locked glovebox is a locked box, the ute canopy would be harder to break into

Originally Posted by No.3

That's exactly what I found myself in with what I was doing - carting the ammo in a ute with a lockable canopy/tray. Firearms in the cab, so I thought I was complying with everything in separately locked compartments of the vehicle. Turned up where I was going and everyone commented that I didn't have the ammo in a locked box. I was like huh? Where does it say I need a locked box?

Quick googling, followed by more discussion and then an argument or three and we all agreed to expand our horizons on what size 'locked box' the ammo was in. Buggered if I know - it's almost like you need a copy of the Arms Act in your back pocket now, quite shit really.

The arms act does say “where practical” , see (e) bellow.

19B Conditions relating to storage of firearms in vehicles during transportation
(1)
Unless otherwise permitted by a member of the Police, if a firearms licence holder is transporting firearms or ammunition in a vehicle on a road or public access way,—
(a)
firearms must be concealed from view from outside of the vehicle; and
(b)
firearms must be made inoperable if readily possible by removing the bolt or another vital part (which should be kept on the licence holder’s person or stored out of sight separately from the firearms) or, if that is not possible (for example, because the firearm is a lever action or semi-automatic or single shot firearm), firearms must be fitted with a trigger lock or travel in a locked case or carry bag; and
(c)
firearms must not be loaded with ammunition in the breech, barrel, chamber, or magazine; and
(d)
ammunition must be concealed from view from outside of the vehicle; and
(e)
ammunition must be stored separately from any firearms and be in a locked glovebox or similar storage area where practicable.

Originally Posted by Boner

I am unable to determine from reading the rules whether having gunsmith work done means I need to roll the dice of registering my arms.

Can anyone shed light on this please?

If we have your firearm for less than 30 days it is not an activating circumstance. You are not required to register your firearm.

Originally Posted by John Duxbury

Just receiving your rifle from a gunsmith (or anyone else) is an activating event, according the FSA, whether or not the gunsmith had it for 30 days or a lesser time. However, in practice it is an event they cannot trace.

(When they say the rifle has to be transferred to the Gunsmith's dealer license after 30 days (or anybody you may have lent your rifle to) they are talking in the context of both parties being registered already.)

You are mistaken, there is an allowance in the arms act for temporary transfer. As long as we hand your firearm back with 30 days, you are not required to register it.

95 Obligation to provide information to registry
(1)
This section applies to the following persons:
(a)
every holder of a firearms licence:
(b)
every holder of a dealer’s licence:
(c)
every other person who is or intends to be in possession of a firearm or other item regulated by or under this Act.
(2)
This section also applies to the following events in relation to any firearm or other item regulated by or under this Act:
(a)
its sale or supply, excluding a temporary transfer:
(b)
its purchase or receipt, excluding a temporary transfer:
(c)
its importation:
(d)
its exportation:
(e)
its manufacture:
(f)
its theft, loss, or destruction:
(g)
any other event specified for the purpose of this section in regulations made under section 74.
(3)
Every person to whom this section applies, and every person who has responsibilty in relation to any event to which this section applies, must provide the relevant details to the Police in accordance with the time and any other requirements prescribed by regulations made under section 74.
(4)
In this section, temporary transfer means a transfer of possession of the firearm (not being a pistol, restricted weapon, prohibited magazine, or prohibited firearm) or other item for less than 30 days.

Originally Posted by DPT

The arms act does say “where practical” , see (e) bellow.

19B Conditions relating to storage of firearms in vehicles during transportation
(1)
Unless otherwise permitted by a member of the Police, if a firearms licence holder is transporting firearms or ammunition in a vehicle on a road or public access way,—
(a)
firearms must be concealed from view from outside of the vehicle; and
(b)
firearms must be made inoperable if readily possible by removing the bolt or another vital part (which should be kept on the licence holder’s person or stored out of sight separately from the firearms) or, if that is not possible (for example, because the firearm is a lever action or semi-automatic or single shot firearm), firearms must be fitted with a trigger lock or travel in a locked case or carry bag; and
(c)
firearms must not be loaded with ammunition in the breech, barrel, chamber, or magazine; and
(d)
ammunition must be concealed from view from outside of the vehicle; and
(e)
ammunition must be stored separately from any firearms and be in a locked glovebox or similar storage area where practicable.

Sweet - thanks!

Originally Posted by DPT

You are mistaken, there is an allowance in the arms act for temporary transfer. As long as we hand your firearm back with 30 days, you are not required to register it.

95 Obligation to provide information to registry
(1)
This section applies to the following persons:
(a)
every holder of a firearms licence:
(b)
every holder of a dealer’s licence:
(c)
every other person who is or intends to be in possession of a firearm or other item regulated by or under this Act.
(2)
This section also applies to the following events in relation to any firearm or other item regulated by or under this Act:
(a)
its sale or supply, excluding a temporary transfer:
(b)
its purchase or receipt, excluding a temporary transfer:
(c)
its importation:
(d)
its exportation:
(e)
its manufacture:
(f)
its theft, loss, or destruction:
(g)
any other event specified for the purpose of this section in regulations made under section 74.
(3)
Every person to whom this section applies, and every person who has responsibilty in relation to any event to which this section applies, must provide the relevant details to the Police in accordance with the time and any other requirements prescribed by regulations made under section 74.
(4)
In this section, temporary transfer means a transfer of possession of the firearm (not being a pistol, restricted weapon, prohibited magazine, or prohibited firearm) or other item for less than 30 days.

‘Other item’ in last line, what is defined as other item?

Originally Posted by Finnwolf

‘Other item’ in last line, what is defined as other item?

I suspect any item that is required to be in the register and is not already integrated into a firearm. For instance an action.

Originally Posted by DPT

I suspect any item that is required to be in the register and is not already integrated into a firearm. For instance an action.

So sights, slings, magazines and stocks etc don’t count?

Originally Posted by Finnwolf

So sights, slings, magazines and stocks etc don’t count?

Correct. With the exception of prohibited magazines.

Originally Posted by DPT

Correct. With the exception of prohibited magazines.
Attachment 262953
Attachment 262954

Thanks for that DPT, appreciated.

Except to ship it back you need a mail order for.and then your receiving a firearm and that is then a registration even. Or so I was just told.
They have so many definitions I can't keep up

What’s an “antique” firearm?

Originally Posted by Maca49

What’s an “antique” firearm?

antique firearm—
(a)
means—
(i)
any firearm that—
(A)
is held in the possession of any person solely as an antique (but not as a copy or replica of an antique); and
(B)
is not designed for firing, and is not capable of firing, rimfire or centrefire cartridge ammunition; or
(ii)
any firearm declared by regulations made under this Act to be an antique firearm for the purposes of this Act; but
(b)
does not include any firearm manufactured after 1899

See post #18 by DPT.

I am bemused, and sometimes disheartened, by the seemingly endless (mis)interpretation of what is written in the Regulations w.r.t. the carriage of firearms and ammunition.

Firstly, you would be well advised to visit the FSA website and download the pdf titled “Secure storage and transportation guide for firearms and ammunition”.
Go here to access that pdf https://www.firearmssafetyauthority....and-ammunition


Go to page 21 and (carefully) read section 6.3 – Regulation r19B.
Take particular note of 2. “Subclause (1) does not apply to a firearms licence holder if — (b) the licence holder is in the vehicle with the firearms or in the immediate vicinity of the vehicle in which the firearms are located.”

Don’t shoot the messenger; all I’m doing is placing the text of the Regulations here i.e. if you remain in the immediate vicinity of the vehicle (they are in your immediate possession) clause 1 does NOT apply – they don’t have to be locked up.

By all means, go right ahead and do anything over and above what is actually required but be practical and use common sense.